Examination of witness (Questions 860
- 879)
TUESDAY 23 NOVEMBER 1999
THE RT
HON NICHOLAS
BROWN
Mr Todd
860. Your officials are looking more dubious
behind you.
(Mr Brown) They probably can see what it is. Perhaps
that is not as full a description of the product as one would
need.
Mr Jack
861. They have been looking at ways to produce
products which are differentiated from the current descriptions
which are "skimmed milk", "semi-skimmed milk"
or "full fat milk". They believe there is a problem
in communicating to the customer that in fact it is only one per
cent, two per cent or three per cent fat. They believe they are
specifically prevented from some regulation or some rule that
says that type of description cannot be used. I felt it was right
and proper to bring your attention to their concerns because they
want to develop new ideas to market milk.
(Mr Brown) I am for encouraging innovation and encouraging
the development of new projects whether it is on the product or
indeed on the marketing of an existing product. If you could set
out exactly what it is they wanted to do I will have the regulations
examined and see what the obstacle actually is.
862. I think it has got wider application in
that producer groups such as the one I am referring to are trying
to be innovative in recognising that if they are going to carve
out a bit more value added it may well be in the description.
(Mr Brown) I think there may be established terms
for particular fresh milk products and there may be some reason
why the description they are seeking to use does not fit within
it. Let me not speculate.
863. When you have the draft reply put up to
you by officials in the context of responding to this question
will you bear in mind that it is not so much a statement of what
is may not be able to be done but what might be able to be done.
To pick up on your very important point of encouraging innovation.
To that extent can I ask you when the necessary legislative changes
are going to be introduced in the context of the MDC developments
to enable them to finance the generic marketing of milk?
(Mr Brown) Soon. We are waiting for the processes.
Mr Jack: Is that a "soon" soon, ie
in the next few weeks? "Soon" can slip sideways ministerially
into months.
Chairman
864. Like the Covent Garden Bill.
(Mr Brown) That is my legacy. I am trying to facilitate
these arrangements. Clearly they require the consent of others.
The plan is that the actual promotional schemes get underway in
spring next year so I understand the industry plan is that they
are targeting April.
Mr Jack
865. Is there a risk to any of the proposals
in this area of the MDC if the dairy companies do not provide
matching funds?
(Mr Brown) The scheme is intended to be a partnership.
866. I just wondered whether in your conversations
and good offices that you referred to earlier you had had any
positive or negative signs as far as this is concerned?
(Mr Brown) I think things are going in the right direction
from the point of view of the producers who, after all, voted
for this but I await a response from the partners.
Mr Jack: The MLC when it comes to promoting
things British as such pray in aid a wonderful term "para-physical
barriers to progress"—
Chairman
867. Para-fiscal barriers.
(Mr Brown) Para-fiscal barriers. Physical barriers
would be those import controls.
Chairman: Paranormal barriers possibly!
Mr Jack
868. This is not the paranormal, this is reality
and it is the inhibiting factors that stop them in certain areas
because of the fact that they work on a compulsory levy and there
are state aid regulation issues in and around that.
(Mr Brown) I should say state aid rules directly apply.
869. I think this particular issue of what can
or cannot be done by bodies like the MDC does come to the heart
of another descriptive issue about whether in fact we could have
a British qualitative label. Is that possible?
(Mr Brown) I am trying to think what the obstacles
are. It has to promote quality rather than British. In other words,
the emphasis has to be on the quality as a quality mark rather
than on the nationality
Mr Todd
870. Like the labelling of British beef?
(Mr Brown) Like the labelling of quality assured British
meats, British pork, British bacon, British ham.
Mr Jack
871. Do you think it would be useful if we had
a label in the way that I have just described?
(Mr Brown) Labelling schemes, as you know, are fiendishly
complicated and there are a number of different factors in this.
Labelling is a matter of European Union competence and trade description
is a matter of domestic government competence and there is legislation
in both areas. Strategically the choice for policy makers is this:
should the consumers be given all the information they require
including geographical point of origin or should labelling rules
treat products as being generic, in other words all of equal worth
and therefore a national or regional identification should not
be necessary. I take the first view, that is that regional descriptions
are a good thing. I would like to see us making more use of the
European rules that allow regional destination and I believe that
consumers are entitled to choose to purchase products from particular
areas and there can be all sorts of reasons why consumers might
want to do that but I believe in a free market it is important
to be able to exercise informed choice and that means that the
individual should be able to exercise the choice and it means
the individual should have the information. My predisposition
in this very important debate is towards clear labelling and that
includes point of origin.
872. In the discussions we have had so far a
lot has been made about product innovation in the dairy sector
and levels of investment. What responsibility do you think MAFF
has to promote improvements or best practice in either of those
areas?
(Mr Brown) I think we do what we can to help and certainly
we work with the regulatory authorities but these are essentially
private sector arrangements. The Ministry of Agriculture is not
going to invent a new yoghurt for example.
873. I would not have put that into your position
as being able to invent a new yoghurt but clearly you do have
a powerful role and influence over what happens in the industry
and I was interested because you have prayed in aid in answering
many questions, and I think properly, the role of the private
sector, but the role of the Minister is also important.
(Mr Brown) If you think about the alternative you
go down a very dangerous road and you travel down it very quickly.
874. I am very clear what the alternative is
but what you say and what you do, the messages that the Minister
of Agriculture can send out do have a powerful influence. The
holder of your office always has and I think will continue to
do so. I was intrigued about the kind of messages that you would
be wanting to send out about investment and innovation if you
felt you had to send them out.
(Mr Brown) These are essentially private sector arrangements.
I am the sponsoring Minister for the food industry. I want it
joined up, I want it to be innovative, I want it to be able to
look to the future but, above all, I want it to have regard to
its core function which is providing good wholesome food products
to consumers and providing the consumer with what they wish to
purchase.
875. Do you think the Milk Development Council
provides farmers with good value for money?
(Mr Brown) I think so, yes.
876. In terms of review it was last reviewed
in 1997. When next will it be reviewed. Is there a plan to do
that?
(Mr Brown) There will be a fixed review period I think
it is five years.
Mr Todd: There is a nod behind.
Mr Jack
877. There is a double nod, you are alright,
you can say five years.
(Mr Brown) When they start to twitch—
878. In terms of representatives on the board
of the MDC do you think farmers are adequately represented at
the present time?
(Mr Brown) I have not had any representations put
to me that the present arrangements—
879. I was asking for your views. I want to
know what you think.
(Mr Brown) I have not had any representations put
to me that the current arrangement are not working in a satisfactory
way.
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