Select Committee on Agriculture Minutes of Evidence


Examination of Witness (Questions 180 - 199)

TUESDAY 23 MAY 2000

RT HON NICHOLAS BROWN, MP

  180. So at this stage no conditions have been set for radical administrative reform leading to savings being a part of the condition for supporting this particular package of measures?
  (Mr Brown) No. Clearly, the objectives of other government departments in this could be different in nuance from my own. If we are going to do this, we are going to do it right, and on a programme that is agreed from the beginning—if we are to do it—and I have not submitted a proposal yet within Government.

  181. Will that initiative be led by MAFF?
  (Mr Brown) Clearly, the parameters for it, because it requires the expenditure of monies upfront, even if there are savings to be achieved later, must be set in discussion with others, but once those parameters are set, provided it is satisfactory—which means that I can achieve the objectives that I have just described to the Committee—then it will be led by MAFF.

  182. The Action Plan suggested the setting up of a High-Level Unit, as it is called, to co-ordinate the delivery of the plan. Who is in charge of that?
  (Mr Brown) Clearly, I am, as the Minister. They tell me I am in charge of all sorts of things, apparently. This is something I want to discuss with the new Permanent Secretary when he takes post on 1 June.

  183. So this unit does not exist?
  (Mr Brown) No, it does.

  184. It does?
  (Mr Brown) Work is progressing now.

  185. But the unit does not exist in the sense of a clearly defined group of people with a task in front of them?
  (Mr Brown) I see what you mean. Whether or not this project can be taken forward is something that is being looked at within the Department now.

  186. I have slightly shifted tack, which is that the delivery of the Action Plan apparently had a high-level unit attached to it.
  (Mr Brown) Let us be quite clear about this, because it is a sensitive matter. Are you asking me about the reorganisation of the regional offices?

  187. No, I am not asking about that.
  (Mr Brown) Because there is no unit yet to progress that.

  188. But it is useful to know that there might be.
  (Mr Brown) Although if it is to be progressed, it will be by a high-level unit, and I will be in charge of it.

  189. Good. The actual thrust of my question related to the High-Level Unit that had been set up, in the terms that are used, to the delivery of the Action Plan itself. Does that unit exist?
  (Mr Brown) Yes, we have—

  190. Who is in charge of that?
  (Mr Brown) The acting Permanent Secretary is currently in charge of it, and the new Permanent Secretary will be in charge of it.

  Chairman: Minister, a number of colleagues have asked for the floor. I am going to ask them to be very brief and ask questions relating to what we have just been discussing over the last hour or so, in case there are any points which they feel they would like to pick up on, because I want to leave time for ten minutes or quarter of an hour on the GM issue, to bring us up to date. Therefore, I shall ask colleagues to be very crisp in their questions, if you feel you can be relatively crisp in your replies, because I want to give everybody a break before moving on to Standing Committees.

Mr Drew

  191. I was going to go on quickly to look at the issue of supermarkets and ask a straightforward question. When is this long-awaited code going to be delivered now? What will be the sanctions if they break ranks, and can we expect more of last weekend's "We're GM free and we're not taking materials from those farms" leadership from the supermarkets?
  (Mr Brown) On the question of the code, it is voluntary, and this is the first time we have got the industry to sign up to a code. It sets out points of principle announced at the summit. There is still detailed work being done on it. The IGD (the Institute of Grocery Distribution) are taking the lead on this for the industry. Frankly, I welcome the work that is being done. Officials of the IGD have put in a lot of hard work on this. Clearly, though, it is sensitive in the sector because, of course, the retailers compete very competitively with each other.

Mr Paterson

  192. A couple of times you have said that certain matters of selling food are now entirely the responsibility of the Food Standards Agency. What is your relationship with that organisation now? The one case that hit the headlines is the closure of the Eardisley plant, which means that 350,000 Welsh lambs from the borders have had to find another abattoir. There are very serious consequences from the decisions made by the Meat Hygiene Service which is now under the Food Standards Agency. There must be some means by which you can put the case for agriculture?
  (Mr Brown) Yes, there is.

  193. How will it work? How does it work?
  (Mr Brown) The Agency's lead Minister is the Secretary of State for Health, but they advise me on matters of mainline ministerial responsibility, and clearly there is a two-way communication between us. It is particularly important at the Council of Ministers where many of the matters of which they have stewardship fall to be discussed at the Agriculture Council, because of the way in which the institutions of the European Union work. So there is a two-way dialogue, and relationships are in good order.

  194. So going to that specific case, what have you done?
  (Mr Brown) I have asked them for a briefing note as to the background on the case. I have read it very carefully, and there are a number of matters which are matters of law that arise out of it. In other words, the reportage is not the whole story. I will not go further than that, because there are matters that will end up in front of the courts. I have got to be careful about answering.

  195. It is more the point that the all-party pre-Select Committee recommended that the Food Standards Agency could not perform the role of the executive agency running the Meat Hygiene Service and in the same breath be the policing agency. Are the Government having second thoughts on this after one month?
  (Mr Brown) Not that I am aware of. The Food Standards Agency has been set up with the structure that we are familiar with. That includes the Next Steps Agency, which is the Meat Hygiene Service, falling within its area of competence.

Mr Öpik

  196. I have one question. There is a view amongst some farmers that the free market is not really holding farm-gate milk prices at an economically sustainable level, especially for small producers. Do you think there is any case for investigating whether there is a way of holding those prices up, given that a couple of pence on the milk price will not make a great deal of difference between the farm gate and the consumer?
  (Mr Brown) There are two extended factors that set the free rate for the market place: the way in which the dairy regime operates, and also, of course, the exchange rates between sterling and the euro. My belief is that the way forward—the right way forward—is for the industry to make strategic alliances through the food chain, so that each element in the chain can get a decent return on what is put in. In other words, it is the strategic alliances, which are effectively private sector alliances, which are the future for the industry. As the sponsoring Minister, I do everything I can to try to make these relationships as easy as possible and try to draw the attention of those responsible to the enormous advantages of working co-operatively.

Dr Turner

  197. It is fairly traditional to solve problems in agriculture, Minister, by giving farmers money. What is unusual in this is really the business element, so driving down bureaucracy, giving proper business advice and ensuring that possibly better use is made of IT—I personally think those are the novel things. Government IT in the past has not covered itself in glory in implementing, and there are in fact quite clearly many sceptics in the industry. Government business advice has got a very mottled reception in different parts of the country over the years. You have explained to the Committee where the finance is coming from, but my own impression is that it is going to be management that matters, and it is going to need overseeing properly, with proper feedback and trialling and a whole set of management techniques used to make sure we do not have disaster in this part of it. Could you say a little bit about how you, at the top, are putting in place the structures that will ensure that we actually get this novel part of the plan to deliver?
  (Mr Brown) I am a great believer in the business focused elements of this package, and I fought very strongly for them. As you can imagine, there are a number of choices to be made.

  198. I appreciate that.
  (Mr Brown) I really stand by what I said to the Committee earlier, that now is the time to take a look at these farm businesses in the round, not just focused on the agricultural component and the supply side measures, but direct support measures. How will we monitor progress? I have a responsibility for co-ordinating across Government the progress on the different action points that came out of the summit. I have a regular review meeting with the officials in my Department, so I can see how things are going, and here will be a meeting relatively soon of all of those who were at the summit, all of those who wish to come as participants, to review progress collectively. In other words, I intend to drive this forward and to drive it forward in a methodical way.

Mr Marsden

  199. Do you intend to review and evaluate the Action Plan for Farming?
  (Mr Brown) We will try, but of course some of the outcomes do not lend themselves easily to measurement—checking on the reconstruction element this, for example. The price has strengthened in the market place. Is this because of measures that the Government and the NFC have taken? I believe in part yes, but it would not wholly be that. The problem of supply and demand has clearly come closer into balance throughout the European Union.


 
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