Examination of Witness (Questions 220
- 231)
TUESDAY 23 MAY 2000
RT HON
NICHOLAS BROWN,
MP
220. What words of comfort can you give specifically
to organic farmers?
(Mr Brown) There is not any organic oilseed rape,
and it is very difficult to see what this product, even if it
could cross-pollinateand the chances of it doing so at
all are remotewould cross-pollinate with. Remember, there
is no organic oilseed rape for it to cross-pollinate with.
Dr Turner
221. Thankfully this has proved to be, I think,
a storm in the tabloids in terms of its importance to health or
the environment, but clearly there are some questions which would
arise in terms of prevention of anything serious happening. One
is what testing does take place of seed to see that we are getting
is what we think we are getting? Secondly, I was impressed that
on this occasion the technical explanation as to why we had a
sterile seed depended upon an understanding of what had happened.
I wondered if there were any tests that could be done on the seed
we have got to check that the technical explanation is well founded,
and whether your officials have ensured that those checks have
taken place? Really I just wanted to know if there are any lessons
to be learned. Have we checked the explanation ourselves in terms
of testing? Secondly, are there any lessons to be learned in the
testing of what we receive from overseas?
(Mr Brown) I have received no advice to the effect
that the technical explanation that I put in the House Library
cannot be relied on, and it has not been challenged at all.
222. Could I suggest that it should be challenged?
Can we check it?
(Mr Brown) The whole purpose of putting it in the
public domain is that those who have a different view on the scienceand
remember, I am a generalist, not a scientistcan come forward
and say so, and nobody has done so.
223. But would you accept that it would be sensible
at least to ask our scientists whether they can check from the
seed whether the explanation fits what they find in the seed?
(Mr Brown) I have not explicitly done that. If you
would like me to do that, I will.
224. I personally think we should check that
explanation, because frankly, given the atmosphere of distrust
of scientists and of explanations given by international companies
in this area, it would seem to meand it may not be possible,
I accept, I do not know enough about genetics to knowthat
we should at least check that what we have got is consistent.
(Mr Brown) The explanation that has been put in the
House Library has been presented to Ministers without any warning
caveat from officials, so the implication is that the specialist
advisers to the Government accept that it is an accurate description.
Nor has it been challenged by any independent specialist in this
area, and, of course, it is now in the public domain. If you would
specifically like me to seek the assurance
225. I would.
(Mr Brown)explicitly rather than implicitlyand
I believe I have implicitlyI will do so.
226. Then could I ask, has the question been
considered in terms of a more general testing, sampling and checking
of the seed that we receive?
(Mr Brown) Yes.
227. Is that something that does happen, or
will happen?
(Mr Brown) It will happen. Yes, it has been considered.
Yes, it was being considered before this happened, and the Secretary
of State for the Environment was anyway putting in place checking
arrangements which will be in place by 1 June.
Chairman
228. Minister, it is the Chairman's privilege
to end at Mornington Crescent, as it were. You said in the House
that you need to reflect upon segregation distances. You were
asked a question, and I think you said, "You are on to a
good thing", in response to a particular Member asking the
question.
(Mr Brown) Yes, that is exactly right, and I stand
by that.
229. What may flow from that remark, then? What
did you envisage happening as a result of that?
(Mr Brown) That there are discussions at official
level, between my officials and officials at the Department of
the Environment who have the lead in this area, because, of course,
the purpose of segregation levels is for environmental protection
purposes. Those, of course, are not the only elements. There is
also now a seed purity question as well, which prior to the advent
of GMs was not really thrown into sharp relief, but one could
argue that it is now. So that is why I am reflecting on this and
my officials are reflecting on this, with officials of the Department
of the Environment. It is important for both of us.
230. The last question is, in the light of this
event, do you think perhaps that with the determination or the
scientific fraternity volunteering that they would not persist
in the technology of terminator genes, perhaps there is something
to be said for terminator genes?
(Mr Brown) There are clearly two sides to this question.
Developing countries object to terminator genes, because it locks
them into annual seed contracts and they cannot use the seed as
renewables. That is the conventional agricultural objection to
it. The case for, of course, has been demonstrated by this accident.
It means that what has happened can be contained. So there are
clearly two sides to this.
231. Minister, thank you very much indeed. We
have got you away in two hours and we are grateful. We always
enjoy our sessions with you. We look forward to other sessions
with you. I am afraid we are rather condemned to meet like this.
(Mr Brown) I look forward to that too, Chairman.
Chairman: On that note of mutual satisfaction,
we can part till the next time. Thank you very much indeed.
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