Examination of witnesses (Questions 244
- 259)
WEDNESDAY 12 JULY 2000
MR NICK
BRADLEY, MRS
JOANNA COMLEY
and MR OLIVER
WATSON
Chairman
244. Mrs Comley, Mr Bradley, and for the minute
I thought it was Mr Oliver Walston and I thought that was inherently
improbable! Welcome to Mr Watson. Mr Walston is a charming man
as well, says he getting out of it rapidly! You have been sitting
at the back, you know what all this is about so I need not go
into any of the background to it. We are always conscious that
we talk to all the organisations and talk to all the academics
but sometimes we find out what the people who actually do it feel
and what particular reason motivated them to do it. As you answer
would you identify who you are for our records and if you could
just say why did you decide to convert? What was the point at
which you got up on Monday morning and said, "Hell, we are
going to have to convert," or whatever? Shall we be politically
incorrect and start with Mrs Comley.
(Mrs Comley) Right. The reason we decided to convert
was commercial. We are small dairy farmers. As you know, farming
at the moment is not very good and we were not making any money.
Although we are efficient, we are very efficient dairy farmers,
we are too small, we only milk 60 cows. I have always liked the
ideal of organics. I have always kept my vegetable garden organic.
It was not too difficult and the money is good.
245. That is the price you get?
(Mrs Comley) Yes, that we will get. We have got another
year to go yet, another 18 months.
246. But it was the particular hole conventional
farming was in, in a sense, was it, that made you realise you
had got to do something?
(Mrs Comley) Yes, it pushed us. It was something we
had thought about before but the hole we were in actually pushed
us.
247. It was not a step into the unknown in the
sense it was something you had toyed with before and it was in
the back of your consciousness as something you might want to
do, but this was what pushed you through into actually doing that?
(Mrs Comley) Yes.
248. Mr Watson?
(Mr Watson) We converted without the aid of grants
or premia back in the mid-1980s.
249. You obviously had not been heard of by
the Union. You may be the eponymous one farmer.
(Mr Watson) I was a bit surprised that they did not
have figures for that. We converted without grants or premia.
We did it, as most people do, for a combination of ideological
and commercial reasons. The commercial reasons were not apparent
although obviously we hoped that there would be premia but there
were none evident in the market. That was what we did back in
1987. We did pick up just a bit of grant on some land under the
last grant scheme, the minimum.
250. In 1987 what was the price differential?
Was the price you were getting as markedly different as it is
now?
(Mr Watson) We started producing milk and there was
no price differential for milk. We sold our milk into the conventional
market. We were induced to convert by a local milk processor who
started a milk packing plant and it was a good example of naivety
really because when we finally converted they closed the scheme
down. So we got dumped on from a great height but we carried on
anyway. We were growing vegetables and we started to get a premium
for vegetables. We just proceeded until OMSCo managed to develop
a market for organic milk.
251. When you see farmers converting now with
the premium do you say to yourself "jammy lot", as it
were?
(Mr Watson) Yes.
252. Do they really need this when with a bit
more oomph and welly they could have done it without really?
(Mr Watson) Obviously what I have said does beg that
question. I agree with you to some extent and certainly a lot
of the converts would say that you are subsidising the opposition
to some extent handing out great grants but you have to face the
situation and if you are going to develop organic agriculture
by what means are you going to do it? In the absence of any better
system it does seem that handing out a bit of money to induce
people to do it probably is the most effective.
253. Mr Bradley, what about you?
(Mr Bradley) I really started the process of conversion
because of the current crisis. I am a tenant farmer with nearly
1,000 acres. Quite frankly, the business is not sustainable without
a change of direction which one hopes will be successful. That
is purely and simply the reason why I had to look in other directions.
254. You are really at the big end of the scale,
are you not, Mr Bradley, so far as the size is concerned?
(Mr Bradley) Well, yes, up until the last couple of
years that would have been considered to have been the case but
very soon that will not be the case and 950 acres will be a medium
sized farm I should imagine.
255. None of you have had any second thoughts
about it? Having taken the plunge you are— Mr Watson, you
have been in it for quite a long period now, Mrs Comley is relatively
recent and you as well, Mr Bradley.
(Mr Bradley) Very recent, yes.
(Mrs Comley) No, not at all. We are happy with what
we are doing.
256. You do not think that you would have second
thoughts? If conventional farming was suddenly roaring ahead,
as it were, you would still reckon that having set your course
you would stick with it?
(Mrs Comley) Yes, I think so. We have got over the
hardest bit which is actually doing it. It is becoming easier
now. I like the idea of it.
Mr Drew
257. I want to look at your experience about
converting and the various schemes and so on. Can I ask you an
impossible question to answer but one that I am interested in.
Is it more interesting being an organic farmer than being a conventional
farmer? You have all done both. I think it is important that we
understand what is the motivation for becoming an organic farmer.
Does it give you more variety?
(Mrs Comley) Yes. It is much more enjoyable. We are
on a steep learning curve so it is more stimulating really. We
know how to farm conventionally, we do not know how to farm organically,
so we really are learning. We are visiting other farms, we are
collecting as much information as possible. It is interesting.
258. Mr Bradley?
(Mr Bradley) My experience is limited so far but already
I can see some benefits, long-term benefits, through the arable
side of organic farming. The very fact that it is a new challenge
is something that I enjoy, yes.
259. Mr Watson, you have been at this a long
time.
(Mr Watson) It definitely is more challenging.
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