Examination of witnesses (Questions 160
- 173)
WEDNESDAY 27 OCTOBER 1999
LORD FALCONER
OF THOROTON,
MR BRIAN
LEONARD and MS
CLARE PILLMAN
160. If we look at the way in which technology
has changed, even in the past 12 months—the speed at which
it is going and that is accelerating the whole time—are
you happy that the content, in terms of various zones where there
is technology involved, can be changed and adapted to take account
of changes which will inevitably take place over the next 12 months?
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) In some it will be easier
than others. Three zones come to mind. First of all, the Talk
Zone is going to have the most modern forms of communication.
I bet you there will be changes in forms of communication during
the year. I believe that what the Talk Zone has in mind are things
way ahead of what we will get to by the end of next year. If we
are wrong, I am quite sure that changes can be made to remedy
that. Secondly, the Play Zone. There are various sorts of games,
not all technology, but all of them never seen before in this
country. Again they can be changed, the games, if as you say technology
takes over and brings us far ahead. Thirdly, the Transport Zone
again will have modern forms of transport. It may be that they
will be overtaken by events. I think it very, very unlikely from
what I have seen. They seem to be so far in advance that it is
unlikely. But if they are overtaken by events, I am sure the changes
can be made.
161. I am fascinated by the fact that you did
not put into that group the Learning Zone.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I was only taking examples.
Absolutely, the Learning Zone we can do the same. Having seen
the Learning Zone, that again looks so far ahead that it is very
unlikely that there will be any need for any change there.
162. Yet is it not a rather—I would not
say out of date concept of learning but certainly one that is
going to be out of date possibly within that period—to have
the whole of the outside given to books rather than to other forms
of learning media.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I thought it looked absolutely
fantastic. I do not think the Dome should only be about, in what
it represents, modern forms of technology. There is a huge amount
of other things which should be represented at the Dome and to
have a zone which looked like that I thought was absolutely fantastic.
163. I think you could have had also other learning.
I am not denying books but I am just saying it could have been
wider.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) That is as much an artistic
design judgment. It looked the right one to me.
164. Lastly, may I turn to the question I asked
about the Faith Zone. Do you not find it astonishing that no money
has come from religious faiths to pay for this zone, which is
entirely given over to their propaganda?
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) It is not for me to judge
what the priorities are of particular religions and what they
would regard as sensible to spend their money on. People committed
to various religions have spent money and invested money in the
Faith Zone. That seems to me an appropriate way of it being funded.
165. As I asked you last time, it is a very
small percentage of the people who are active members of any faith.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) It addresses issues way
beyond the particular tenets of individual faith. It addresses
issues which people, whether they have a faith or not, would wish
to look at. £3 million comes from Christian foundations in
relation to it.
166. New Year's Eve has always been Hogmanay.
It is a Scottish celebration, or has been, up until recent years.
It was the major holiday in Scotland until very recently yet there
is no element of Scottish celebration, I gather, in the Big Time;
and the only element within the actual opening ceremony is to
be the singing of Auld Lang Syne just after midnight. Is
that not perhaps slightly downgrading Scotland, and does not Scotland
feel slightly insulted by that?
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I am a Scot like you and
I recognise that Scotland has always celebrated 31 December in
a big, big way but that is not to say that I have regarded 31
December as the special property of Scotland. I think these are
celebrations for the whole of the United Kingdom. We recognise
that the eyes of country will be on the Dome in the build-up to
the 31 December 1999. It has got to have resonance for everybody.
Mr Maxton: Well, I still fear it is not
having the resonance in Scotland it should have.
Derek Wyatt
167. It is growing.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) Watch it and see. I hope
we will achieve something that will resonate.
Mr Maxton: I am all for it but I think
other Scots are not so keen.
Mr Faber
168. Just a quick question, Minister. Can I
pick up on John Maxton's point a moment ago because the Church
was asked for money. There was an article in the Sunday Telegraph
on 11 July this year concerning a promotions company Citroen Wolf
who had been employed by NMEC to produce a brochure about the
Dome. You will recall that Citroen Wolf called the Church of England
and asked them to pay £50,000 for the honour of being "the
preferred religious partner of the Dome". This must have
caused you some concern. I know that the relationship with Citroen
Wolf was curtailed. Have you asked for a report?
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I have been kept regularly
up-to-date in relation to that. It led, as you rightly identify
Mr Faber, to litigation between Citroen Wolf and the Dome. The
Dome company acted entirely appropriately. It was an entirely
inappropriate thing for anybody associated with the Dome to have
done. It led to a termination of relations between Citroen Wolf
and the Dome and litigation followed.[8]
169. Who instituted the litigation? They issued
a winding up order.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I do not think it was
a winding up order. The relationship was brought to an end. I
think Citroen Wolf then sued the Dome company claiming damages
and various other sorts of relief and I think there is now some
settlement in existence between the two of them but I do not think
one could say that our response was anything other than vigourous
and appropriate.
170. A settlement suggests that NMEC have paid
Citroen Wolf.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I do not know what the
detail of it is. It would be inappropriate for me to comment on
what the detail was. I think your questions, Mr Faber, were directed
to the question of what —
171. You have got some help coming from behind
you, I think.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) I am happy to tell you
that there was no payment involved.
Mr Faber: Thank you very much.
Chairman: New Labour personified. Mr
Fearn?
Mr Fearn
172. Just one small question. We are hoping
for a car-free zone. Is that message getting through?
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) We are trying to broadcast
it as loud and as clear as we possibly can. I believe that the
message is getting through. I very much hope that it is.
Chairman: I think Mr Fearn having said
that and there having been perhaps some misinterpretation of what
the Minister said last week that it would be helpful to the whole
project if Ministers going to the Dome either on opening night
or any other occasion were to emulate the Prime Minister's example
this week and hop on the Tube.
Mr Fraser: Not Mr Prescott.
Chairman
173. Could I once again, Lord Falconer, and
precluding any further interruptions, thank you very much indeed
for the clarity and forthrightness of your answers. We look forward
to seeing you again. Without over-egging the pudding I think it
is a tribute to the way in which the questions were answered in
the earlier session that we have had to detain you for so relatively
short a time. Thank you very much.
(Lord Falconer of Thoroton) Thank you very much.
8 Note by Witness: NMEC and Citroen Wolf have
been able to agree revised contractural terms which clarify in
more detail the manner in which Citroen Wolf may approach potential
advertisers. The action is stayed and the project is proceeding. Back
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