Examination of witnesses (Questions 40
- 59)
THURSDAY 13 JULY 2000
SIR CHRISTOPHER
BLAND, DAME
PAULINE NEVILLE-JONES,
MR GREG
DYKE, MR
MARK THOMPSON
and MR JOHN
SMITH
40. So you would agree that you are not the
most watched United Kingdom news channel?
(Sir Christopher Bland) It depends on your definition
of channel. Can you tell me what page of the Annual Report that
phrase comes from?
41. It is under the heading News in the
first main paragraph, five lines from the bottom.
(Sir Christopher Bland) "Audiences for our continuous
digital news channel BBC News 24—the most watched UK news
channel—continued to grow, and it was named satellite/digital
channel of the year at this year's Television and Radio Industries
Club Awards." I think it depends. It is a semantic matter,
is it not?
42. No, it is not a semantic matter. It is about
the accuracy of your report. Am I right in the definition of a
channel as being BBC News 24 and the output could be a series
of programmes?
(Mr Thompson) BBC 1 hands over to News 24. News 24
programmes are not presented as programmes on BBC 1. What happens
is that programmes on BBC 1 overnight and BBC 2 on a Saturday
morning, we hand over to the BBC News 24 channel. It is a pretty
arcane distinction, I accept. You do not have BBC 1 presentation
in News 24 programmes on BBC 1. We hand over to the News 24 channel.
43. It is about public choice. I sit down and
decide to watch news. I decide to switch on a channel, to either
Sky News or to BBC News 24. I make that choice. That is a public
choice of the channel. On BBC 1, they do not have that choice.
If they turn to BBC 1, they normally assume to get the wide range
of excellent programmes that are on BBC 1. After a certain time
at night on both 1 and 2 they get News 24. Therefore, there is
not a positive choice towards a news channel.
(Sir Christopher Bland) They can always turn it off.
We are not really at odds. We are absolutely clear that our share
in digital homes and our reach is lower than Sky but our overall
audience is greater.
Chairman
44. When you say "audience", you used
before and you now use in response to Claire Ward the word "reach".
You said your reach is six million but on page 45 you say that
it is now watched by more than six million. Is there a difference
between reaching and being watched by?
(Sir Christopher Bland) No.
(Mr Dyke) Reach is a definition of watching for a
certain period of time.
Ms Ward: Is that the three minutes?
Chairman
45. It is more than three minutes at a stretch.
That is the way you measure it.
(Mr Dyke) There are two reaches. One is three minutes.
One is 20 minutes. Most people use the three minutes and, at some
stage, watch that service for more than three minutes.
46. What you are saying is that over a year,
if you add it all up together, six million people have been watching
BBC News 24 for more than three minutes at a go?
(Sir Christopher Bland) No.
47. Then perhaps you would explain it?
(Mr Thompson) We will confirm this to you but I believe
that the figures are based upon weekly reach.
48. You are saying that every week 6.1 million
people have tuned in to BBC News 24 for three minutes or more?
(Mr Thompson) Yes.
49. That is the way you measure it?
(Sir Christopher Bland) Yes.
(Mr Thompson) Whereas 3.6 million will have watched
Sky News for the same period.
Ms Ward
50. That is six million over 24 hours a day,
seven days a week?
(Sir Christopher Bland) Yes.
51. Compared to the sort of figures that we
might see for one half hour episode of Eastenders, which would
be considerably in excess of six million.
(Mr Dyke) One half hour could be anything between
12 and 18 million.
52. That puts it into context.
(Sir Christopher Bland) It is a different genre. News
is not as popular as Eastenders at One, at Six or at Nine. It
would be very nice if we thought our news could get an Eastenders
audience, but I do not think we are likely to achieve that and
I do not think it is right to compare the relativities.
(Mr Dyke) You are comparing the most popular programme
on the BBC and probably one of the two most popular programmes
on British television with news. I think it is quite dangerous
territory because there are some other programmes on the BBC that
do not achieve this but have real value in our public service
remit.
(Mr Thompson) Having invested in News 24, the idea
of bringing to as many licence payers as possible and to people
in analogue homes as well as multi-channel digital homes does
not seem unreasonable.
53. You are still happy to justify £50
million a year for the basis of 0.1 per cent of audience?
(Sir Christopher Bland) No, because it is not 0.1
per cent of the audience we justify. First of all, it is 0.3 in
digital homes. Secondly, overall, it is 6.1 million viewers a
week. Plainly Ms Ward thinks they are somehow trapped into watching
News 24 on terrestrial television, on analogue television. We
do not think that is the case. We would like the audience to be
greater. We would urge the members of the Committee who have always
found a problem with News 24 to give it another shot. It is a
really good service. It has improved since its early days. It
is getting better by the minute. Give it a try.
Chairman: Or by the three minutes.
Ms Ward: I should hope that it is getting
better.
Chairman: I gave it a try over the weekend
when I was zapping around on my digital set.
Ms Ward: Did you stay longer than three
minutes, because you would have been counted in their audience?
Chairman
54. No, because I went back to Sky Active which
is fascinating me at the moment because of the way I can choose
the stories I want to follow. Can I ask about the statistics?
You corrected the figure that Sky Television gave us of 0.1 per
cent for you, saying it is 0.3 per cent.
(Sir Christopher Bland) We also corrected their figure.
55. You have uprated them as well.
(Sir Christopher Bland) From four to five.
56. I am not nit-picking; I just want to understand
the definitions. You say that that 0.3 per cent is a proportion
of viewership in digital homes, whereas Sky say that 0.1 per cent,
as they said, and their 0.4 per cent is a share of total United
Kingdom television viewing, so which is it? Is it a share of total
United Kingdom television viewing or just a share of viewing in
digital homes?
(Sir Christopher Bland) I think it is total but it
comes from digital homes. I need to check that but I think it
is total.
57. It is a question of clarifying it?
(Sir Christopher Bland) Yes. We will write to you
clarifying these figures. The figures I quoted to you are for
four weeks in June this year, but we will write and make that
clear.
Ms Ward
58. We are probably not going to agree on News
24 so perhaps I can move on to something a little more general.
Would anyone like to give me a definition of public sector broadcasting?
(Sir Christopher Bland) Yes. It is set out in the
Charter and the agreement. It is the delivery of radio, television
and now online of a range of services that inform, that educate
and entertain. That is the old Reithian definition that I think
we would still stand by. We would amplify that by saying that
our programmes ought, not all of them but many of them, to be
programmes that would not be supplied by the market alone; that
are, again not all the time but some of the time, directed at
parts of the population that would otherwise be under-served by
a purely commercial service, like the old, like ethnic minorities,
like single mothers with children; and that throughout our programmes
ought to strive to be innovative, to be stimulating, to be imaginative
and to be different and of the highest quality.
59. Would anybody else like to add to that?
(Mr Dyke) I think that was a fair summary. I would
make it simple and say our job is to make great programmes. Inevitably,
we will fail at times because not all programmes can be great,
but that should be the aim. The aim should be great output in
a whole cross of genres. That is what the unique quality of the
BBC has provided to Britain over many years.
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