Examination of witnesses (Questions 140
- 149)
THURSDAY 13 JULY 2000
SIR CHRISTOPHER
BLAND, DAME
PAULINE NEVILLE-JONES,
MR GREG
DYKE, MR
MARK THOMPSON
and MR JOHN
SMITH
Derek Wyatt
140. Good morning. I am sorry I am late. I had
to take a constituency issue to a Minister. Also, I should just
put on the record again, in case you are unaware, I am the non-executive
Chairman of Einstein Television, which is currently in Berlin
and hopefully will be in Britain in the near future. Can I just
ask you about BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge. The
Governors stated that you have some way to go to establish yourself
with digital audiences. Mr Thompson said at Banff on both Choice
and Knowledge these ". . . were launched with rather
confused objectives and as a result have had less impact than
they should have done . . .". At what stage do you decide
that they are not worth continuing with?
(Mr Thompson) As I said in Banff, we are in the middle
of a review of all of our television channels, and I include the
digital channels. So over the course of the coming weeks and months
we will look hard at all of them. I believe that both Choice
and Knowledge have improved substantially since their
launch. Media launches, as we know, are difficult to get right.
Sometimes we get media launches right the first time, sometimes
we do not. I think in both cases Knowledge since its relaunch
and Choice under Stuart Murphy are strengthening in confidence.
We want to look at those channels, their contribution alongside
our core analogue/digital channels, BBC 1 and BBC 2, so that we
can make sure both that they are offering real quality and value
to viewers now and in the immediate future but also so that they
fit into a long term plan for our digital services.
141. There has been some speculation, I think,
from your speech principally about this idea that BBC 1 will be
more entertainment and BBC 2 might be more as it were, educational,
digital, more cerebral. If, in fact, that is how you do feel because
that is based on your research on digital audiences, is there
some sort of logic that in the end that particular channel too
will become a digital channel of news and politics and, if you
like, documentary, and, if that is the logical extension of that
thinking, is there any future there for BBC 2 in the digital environment?
(Mr Thompson) To repeat, Derek, this may not be helpful,
we are looking at how all the channels should fit together. I
did not suggest at Banff that BBC 1 should become an entertainment
channel and that BBC 2 should become a news and documentary channel.
I said that we did need to look hard at how both existing audience
behaviour and also the impact of some technologies would affect
what the shape of our channels in the future should be. Clearly
we need, in my view, to find a clear strategy for the future into
which a set of channels, which makes sense both in analogue and
in digital homes, can take place. Does that mean that there might
be some changes to Choice and Knowledge as well
as to BBC 1 and BBC 2 over time? Yes, that is possible.
142. I understand that process. By and large
on your digital philosophy, as Claire indicated, you are copying
or you are rivalling what is there commercially. Can I ask you
why you are not considering a digital regional channel for all
of the eight RDAs as you have Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland
separately? You have the opportunity to create a massive creative
hub in the region which is not dependent, as it currently is,
on buying a bit of this from Newcastle or a bit from Leeds or
a bit from Manchester or wherever, which could make a huge public
service statement.
(Mr Dyke) When Claire Ward asked us what was public
service broadcasting in this new era, it was interesting. One
of our roles clearly is about regionalism. It is interesting that
in England now our early evening half hour regional news broadcast
out-performs ITV, in every region except one. That is a complete
turn around from five years ago. I do think the consolidation
of ITV will mean that no matter how much people wish it, the new
competition is that ITV's role regionally will become diminished
and the BBC's will grow. When we are looking forward, what are
we trying to say? We are talking about our programmes, our schedules.
When the world becomes digital, we have got to be available in
all homes, the ones we are delivering free should be available
in all homes. To do what you are suggesting at the moment will
be enormously expensive because we have had to take another—how
many additional transponders, 18?
(Mr Thompson) Potential for those.
(Mr Dyke) We are going to take another 18 services,
Sky has given another 18 services, only to put out six for the
regional programming in that area. At some stage we will have
to bite that bullet and it is quite an expensive one to bite.
(Dame Pauline Neville-Jones) It is a real issue.
143. We have a thousand computer centres being
commissioned over the next few years, it seems logical to me that
you should be in that environment and you are not.
(Mr Dyke) No.
144. You have different strands of Government,
as you know, talking separately but it seems to me you have a
huge public service remit in this area and we should enable it.
(Mr Dyke) We have increased the money we are spending
this year on what we call the Nation's Regional Service, we are
planning another significant increase over the next two years.
Derek Wyatt: On sport, I am sorry if
this has been said already.
Chairman: We must move towards the end.
We have had two and a half hours placing a burden on this lady
and gentlemen who deserve their lunch.
Derek Wyatt
145. Have you considered the public service
remit to have a sports channel that looks at coach education,
classic moments in sport and serves the 150 sports which find
it very, very hard to get more than half an hour on conventional
television currently?
(Mr Dyke) We have looked and we are discussing that.
I think if we did it it would be a commercial venture rather than
a public service venture. I think the Secretary of State has made
it pretty clear if we go to him with a proposal for a public service
sports channel it will get turned down.
146. That is interesting. I had not heard that
before. Lastly, if I am allowed one more question, Chairman, you
have made some statements about wanting, as it were, to enhance
the production base of programming in the BBC, yet if I could
quickly give you Teletubbies, Have I Got News For You, Wallace
& Gromit, Dinnerladies, The Vicar of Dibley, these are
independent productions of high honour.
(Mr Dyke) Yes.
147. It seems certainly PACT and other people
are saying to us that actually there will be a greater resistance
to put programming out. If it is the best and you want the best
surely it is irrelevant whether you have 25 per cent or 40 per
cent out there in the independent world.
(Mr Dyke) While I agree with you, yes, our job is
to commission the best programmes. If it means it comes from the
independent sector, in some genres we are well above 40 per cent.
We do have a specific problem at the moment and that is there
is a requirement on us to take 25 per cent of programming from
independent production companies but actually what is defined
as an independent production company is somebody that just is
not, I think the figure is, 25 per cent owned by a broadcaster.
You have probably looked in the market, independent production
companies are being bought up by broadcasters at such a rate that
we are going to struggle to meet the 25 per cent quota. I agree
with you. One is not counter to the other. To encourage an in-house
production capacity, striving to make the best programmes, is
a perfectly laudable thing to do but we cannot do it at the expense
of saying "We are not prepared to commission the brains of
the rest of the market".
148. You are paying the overheads and that is
the dilemma.
(Sir Christopher Bland) That is right. One of our
public service tasks is to keep a critical mass of programme makers
within the BBC provided they are good enough. We have the immense
advantage of radio and television under one roof. We are getting
increased benefits from that cross fertilisation but, as Greg
said, in the end it comes back to only commissioning the best
from whatever source.
Chairman
149. Sir Christopher, on behalf of the Committee
I would like to thank you and your colleagues. You have given
us, as I said, two and a half hours of your time. I hope you have
felt it is worthwhile and same time, same place next year.
(Sir Christopher Bland) Chairman, thank you very much.
It was worthwhile. We are grateful to you for letting us be here.
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