Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport Minutes of Evidence


Examination of witnesses (Questions 140 - 149)

THURSDAY 13 JULY 2000

SIR CHRISTOPHER BLAND, DAME PAULINE NEVILLE-JONES, MR GREG DYKE, MR MARK THOMPSON and MR JOHN SMITH

Derek Wyatt

  140. Good morning. I am sorry I am late. I had to take a constituency issue to a Minister. Also, I should just put on the record again, in case you are unaware, I am the non-executive Chairman of Einstein Television, which is currently in Berlin and hopefully will be in Britain in the near future. Can I just ask you about BBC Choice and BBC Knowledge. The Governors stated that you have some way to go to establish yourself with digital audiences. Mr Thompson said at Banff on both Choice and Knowledge these ". . . were launched with rather confused objectives and as a result have had less impact than they should have done . . .". At what stage do you decide that they are not worth continuing with?
  (Mr Thompson) As I said in Banff, we are in the middle of a review of all of our television channels, and I include the digital channels. So over the course of the coming weeks and months we will look hard at all of them. I believe that both Choice and Knowledge have improved substantially since their launch. Media launches, as we know, are difficult to get right. Sometimes we get media launches right the first time, sometimes we do not. I think in both cases Knowledge since its relaunch and Choice under Stuart Murphy are strengthening in confidence. We want to look at those channels, their contribution alongside our core analogue/digital channels, BBC 1 and BBC 2, so that we can make sure both that they are offering real quality and value to viewers now and in the immediate future but also so that they fit into a long term plan for our digital services.

  141. There has been some speculation, I think, from your speech principally about this idea that BBC 1 will be more entertainment and BBC 2 might be more as it were, educational, digital, more cerebral. If, in fact, that is how you do feel because that is based on your research on digital audiences, is there some sort of logic that in the end that particular channel too will become a digital channel of news and politics and, if you like, documentary, and, if that is the logical extension of that thinking, is there any future there for BBC 2 in the digital environment?
  (Mr Thompson) To repeat, Derek, this may not be helpful, we are looking at how all the channels should fit together. I did not suggest at Banff that BBC 1 should become an entertainment channel and that BBC 2 should become a news and documentary channel. I said that we did need to look hard at how both existing audience behaviour and also the impact of some technologies would affect what the shape of our channels in the future should be. Clearly we need, in my view, to find a clear strategy for the future into which a set of channels, which makes sense both in analogue and in digital homes, can take place. Does that mean that there might be some changes to Choice and Knowledge as well as to BBC 1 and BBC 2 over time? Yes, that is possible.

  142. I understand that process. By and large on your digital philosophy, as Claire indicated, you are copying or you are rivalling what is there commercially. Can I ask you why you are not considering a digital regional channel for all of the eight RDAs as you have Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland separately? You have the opportunity to create a massive creative hub in the region which is not dependent, as it currently is, on buying a bit of this from Newcastle or a bit from Leeds or a bit from Manchester or wherever, which could make a huge public service statement.
  (Mr Dyke) When Claire Ward asked us what was public service broadcasting in this new era, it was interesting. One of our roles clearly is about regionalism. It is interesting that in England now our early evening half hour regional news broadcast out-performs ITV, in every region except one. That is a complete turn around from five years ago. I do think the consolidation of ITV will mean that no matter how much people wish it, the new competition is that ITV's role regionally will become diminished and the BBC's will grow. When we are looking forward, what are we trying to say? We are talking about our programmes, our schedules. When the world becomes digital, we have got to be available in all homes, the ones we are delivering free should be available in all homes. To do what you are suggesting at the moment will be enormously expensive because we have had to take another—how many additional transponders, 18?
  (Mr Thompson) Potential for those.
  (Mr Dyke) We are going to take another 18 services, Sky has given another 18 services, only to put out six for the regional programming in that area. At some stage we will have to bite that bullet and it is quite an expensive one to bite.
  (Dame Pauline Neville-Jones) It is a real issue.

  143. We have a thousand computer centres being commissioned over the next few years, it seems logical to me that you should be in that environment and you are not.
  (Mr Dyke) No.

  144. You have different strands of Government, as you know, talking separately but it seems to me you have a huge public service remit in this area and we should enable it.
  (Mr Dyke) We have increased the money we are spending this year on what we call the Nation's Regional Service, we are planning another significant increase over the next two years.

  Derek Wyatt: On sport, I am sorry if this has been said already.

  Chairman: We must move towards the end. We have had two and a half hours placing a burden on this lady and gentlemen who deserve their lunch.

Derek Wyatt

  145. Have you considered the public service remit to have a sports channel that looks at coach education, classic moments in sport and serves the 150 sports which find it very, very hard to get more than half an hour on conventional television currently?
  (Mr Dyke) We have looked and we are discussing that. I think if we did it it would be a commercial venture rather than a public service venture. I think the Secretary of State has made it pretty clear if we go to him with a proposal for a public service sports channel it will get turned down.

  146. That is interesting. I had not heard that before. Lastly, if I am allowed one more question, Chairman, you have made some statements about wanting, as it were, to enhance the production base of programming in the BBC, yet if I could quickly give you Teletubbies, Have I Got News For You, Wallace & Gromit, Dinnerladies, The Vicar of Dibley, these are independent productions of high honour.
  (Mr Dyke) Yes.

  147. It seems certainly PACT and other people are saying to us that actually there will be a greater resistance to put programming out. If it is the best and you want the best surely it is irrelevant whether you have 25 per cent or 40 per cent out there in the independent world.
  (Mr Dyke) While I agree with you, yes, our job is to commission the best programmes. If it means it comes from the independent sector, in some genres we are well above 40 per cent. We do have a specific problem at the moment and that is there is a requirement on us to take 25 per cent of programming from independent production companies but actually what is defined as an independent production company is somebody that just is not, I think the figure is, 25 per cent owned by a broadcaster. You have probably looked in the market, independent production companies are being bought up by broadcasters at such a rate that we are going to struggle to meet the 25 per cent quota. I agree with you. One is not counter to the other. To encourage an in-house production capacity, striving to make the best programmes, is a perfectly laudable thing to do but we cannot do it at the expense of saying "We are not prepared to commission the brains of the rest of the market".

  148. You are paying the overheads and that is the dilemma.
  (Sir Christopher Bland) That is right. One of our public service tasks is to keep a critical mass of programme makers within the BBC provided they are good enough. We have the immense advantage of radio and television under one roof. We are getting increased benefits from that cross fertilisation but, as Greg said, in the end it comes back to only commissioning the best from whatever source.

Chairman

  149. Sir Christopher, on behalf of the Committee I would like to thank you and your colleagues. You have given us, as I said, two and a half hours of your time. I hope you have felt it is worthwhile and same time, same place next year.
  (Sir Christopher Bland) Chairman, thank you very much. It was worthwhile. We are grateful to you for letting us be here.


 
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