Examination of Witnesses (Questions 190
- 195)
THURSDAY 16 NOVEMBER 2000
MR RICHARD
SIDDLE, MR
EDDIE THOMPSON,
MR ROY
TURNBULL, MR
COLIN FINCH
AND MR
TREVOR DIXON
190. Are you confident that those will be maintained?
(Mr Siddle) If Camelot have made that commitment and
they get that licence then obviously they will follow that through.
Our concern, again, going back to The People's Lottery and this
whole idea of them not having access to the Camelot network, is
how on earth are we to know, when they are judging retailers on
this nine month trial basis, which are these 1,000 stores? We
would like to make clear today that if it is at all possible through
the Commission, or through legislation, that Camelot are required,
if they are not successful, to hand over not only all the names
and addresses of the network but also the financial accounts and
details. Obviously there are data protection facets to that, but
as much information as possible that can be handed over to The
People's Lottery if they win so they are then in a position from
day one to be able to carry on in the efficient way that Camelot
has been and in no way sitting there wondering what on earth are
these retailers doing, how are they performing and where are they
performing? That is vital.
(Mr Finch) That should not have any bearing on the
profitability of 1,000 Lottery terminals because it is a National
Lottery and it is supposed to be accessible in the four corners
of this country regardless of the profit. It is the overall package
on which Camelot is making its profit, so the overall package
that The People's Lottery would give more to good causes. Without
the complete accessibility to everyone in this country and if
they move 500 or 1,000 that are unprofitable, that would be the
first brick in removing this Lottery from this country. It is
a National Lottery and we should not lose sight of that, whether
or not they are profitable. They certainly would be profitable
to the small retailer but whether they contribute to the overall
profit of Camelot or the good causes that they envisage with The
People's Lottery in the future is another matter. They are vital
to the people and there has to be accessibility to play the Lottery.
Mr Fraser
191. In your evidence you state that the Neighbourhood
Lottery Alliance is "the voice of the Lottery retailer".
Has the current operator given your organisation any financial
assistance in any way?
(Mr Dixon) No, none at all.
192. You would like that to be the case in future?
(Mr Turnbull) Yes.
193. So your commission that you get from the
sales, as described just now, is a vital income for a lot of your
members, and I can see that. You only need to go to any rural
part of this country, and Dorset is no different from anywhere
else, and you see the people queuing up to buy their tickets on
a Saturday night and that is very good news. Is the commission
you get satisfactory for the job you do?
(Mr Thompson) I think the answer would be yes, to
be fair.
(Mr Dixon) Retailers would always like more but the
fact of the matter is that the five per cent that is retained
by the vast majority of the members we represent is probably satisfactory.
It becomes more marginal when those of our members who run a post
office have that commission reduced by one per cent because the
Post Office takes one. That would be a concern in terms of the
future allocation of terminals should they be allocated on a different
basis if the Post Office were to achieve, let us call it, an unfair
share of terminals.
194. If The People's Lottery came along and
offered you a larger commission, given what was said just now
about the changeover fears and all the problems associated with
two terminals, would this not ease those fears and make it slightly
more comfortable for you to change over?
(Mr Finch) It is certainly not in the gift of The
People's Lottery to make concessions outside their tender. We
must remember that the Lottery commission is an element at five
pence per pound that is spent, but the most important thing is
the sale of the tickets and for the National Lottery to be healthy.
For The People's Lottery to turn around and say they are going
to offer six per cent, or 6.5 or 5.5, that detracts from the good
causes and the minute that the public's perception is that retailers
are getting more than they should it will affect sales. Everything
that happens out in the communities we serve, the bad selections
the Heritage Department has chosen, affects sales. Fat cat bonuses
affected sales. There are peaks and troughs with all retailers.
For anyone to come and make an offer of an increase in commission
for support detracts from the fact that it is a National Lottery
and we are here to best serve it and retail it in the national
interest. We are quite proud of our part that we have played in
it because within this organisation here we are responsible for
45 per cent.
(Mr Dixon) I think what we would not want is commission
to reach a level, having said we would not mind a marginal increase,
where more price aggressive retailers might reinvest some of that
commission in incentivising play.
195. So, given that I think it was Mr Turnbull
who talked about his local rector or his vicar who speaks very
highly of it, although you did not say whether he played but obviously
comes into your shop, do you feel you are offering a community
service? How does that balance with the financial gain you make
from what you sell?
(Mr Turnbull) I will take that one. Yes, we do. I
am sure that the general public appreciate what we do. I think
they believe that the commission is about right. I might add that
in the Republic of Ireland it is six per cent. However, the thing
to remember about the retailers who have got the National Lottery
is they are so grateful for having it that I do not think the
five per cent comes into play. The general perception, as I have
said previously, is a lot of people would go out of business if
they did not have it. The way that the general public reacts to
the National Lottery is different because people outside do not
see what goes on inside the shop. It is part of life now.
(Mr Dixon) I think neighbourhood stores are seen as
part of the community, they play an important but perhaps unmeasurable
part in the local community. They are important because they employ
local people and they serve local people. It is in extremes that
you see the importance of neighbourhood stores. The recent petrol
difficulties encouraged people to shop locally rather than go
to superstores, bad weather brings people locally, and they assume
that the Lottery should be there, it is part of that community
ethic.
(Mr Thompson) In Scotland, because of the small population
but the large distribution area, we think a lot of the community
stores are focal points for communities, not just groceries, alcohol,
videos, and now in addition to the Lottery you have got ATM cash
machines serving the public.
Chairman: Gentlemen, I am sorry we have
gone on beyond our allocated time, but that shows the interest
colleagues have in the information you have been providing to
us, for which we are most grateful. Thank you very much. It has
been a touch of real life.
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