Examination of witnesses (Questions 140
- 145)
WEDNESDAY 3 MAY 2000
BARONESS SYMONS
OF VERNHAM
DEAN, SIR
JOHN CHISHOLM
and MR TERENCE
JAGGER
140. Will it report its decisions to the MoD?
Will it report its decisions to Parliament?
(Mr Jagger) Again this is detail we have not worked
out. I would envisage the Compliance Committee having the duty
of making a regular report perhaps within the company's annual
report or something like that.
141. Obviously this is still early stages but
throughout the last three hours when you have been very patient
and very helpful, a lot of unresolved issues have been admitted.
This is perfectly understandable in the circumstances but before
we can give our definitive judgment we would need to see some
of that information provided because in a way it is applying a
pig in a poke, you have no idea what the full picture is. If things
have not been resolved neither yourselves or anyone else is in
a strong position.
(Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean) Chairman, one has
always got the dilemma of how soon you go public with proposals.
We thought it was right to go public with these proposals because
we wanted to have proper consultation on them but inevitably one
of the penalties for that is that they are still proposals and
therefore a lot of the detailed work has not been done. What we
are looking for is at least an indication that we are going along
the right lines because if we had waited until every last bit
of detail had been worked through and then found that this was
going to attract the same sort of criticism our previous proposals
did that would have been wasted work. So we hope we have struck
the right balance in coming into the public arena with the proposals
at this stage in order to allow everybody with an interest in
this matter the opportunity to say what they feel.
142. Two further questions which I will roll
into one. With the Retained DERA keeping its core technology integration
units will New DERA simply be a contract research organisation
and not be able to follow its instincts with research in higher
risk and innovative new technology?
(Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean) I hope that that
is wrong, Chairman, because that is one of the things we very
much want to see New DERA doing. I do not think we would persuade
Sir John to stay on as its Chief Executive if what you propose
or fear there were the case. Perhaps you would like to expand
on that?
(Sir John Chisholm) With the exception of chemical
and biological defence, New DERA will have the full range of capabilities
that it has at the moment, although obviously less of the elements
that have been retained within the retained DERA. So just as at
this moment the Ministry of Defence goes to suppliers other than
DERA for the knowledge integration task in some areas, the New
DERA will continue to want to offer a total systems advice service
to customers in the areas where customers feel prepared to buy
it.
143. Despite your efforts to divide up the work
of DERA neatly between new and retained areas, is there not a
danger of each new organisation growing into and duplicating each
other's domain?
(Sir John Chisholm) There is actually something rather
virtuous about duplication in science. Having different researchers
in broadly the same field operating, publishing their results,
spinning ideas off each other is quite a virtuous thing. It is
quite a dangerous thing in science to have only one source of
advice and so it is not a bad thing for the organisations to be
in adjacent fields and to be able to have a view of what each
other is doing.
144. We do not want New DERA knowing what is
going on in old DERA if old DERA is getting secret information
from the United States, so there is a problem.
(Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean) I do not think so.
To be fair, having two sorts of advice does not hurt anybody but
we are quite clear that retained DERA is where security sensitive
information has to be kept. Terence, do you want to say anything
else?
(Mr Jagger) I do not think I need to add anything.
Chairman
145. Thank you very much. I think this is the
longest any Committee hearing has ever gone on.
(Baroness Symon of Vernham Dean) I do not know whether
that is a good thing or a bad thing.
Chairman: The next time we call you it
might even be longer but we will give you a little break in the
middle. We will write our report around the time of the termination
of the consultation period. We would like to write to you, if
we may, for additional information. When you have finally, finally,
finally decided and all information is available and the decision
is irrevocable then we would like to invite you back and explain
to us what of these helpful suggestions that groups like us have
given have been brought on board and we would like to have you
back one more time, if we may. Certainly we look forward to seeing
you and talking about the other difficulties which you have to
face in your office but thank you very much for coming. This issue
regrettably, as far as you are concerned, will not go away and
this is not last you have seen of it. Thank you so very much.
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