House of Commons - Minutes of Proceedings
Minutes of Proceedings The Defence Committee



 

WEDNESDAY 25 NOVEMBER 1999

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Ordered, That Strangers be admitted during the examination of witnesses unless the Committee otherwise orders.–(The Chairman.)

    Draft Report (The OCCAR Convention), proposed by the Chairman, brought up, and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 29 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the First Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 8 December at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 8 DECEMBER 1999

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee accept the invitation from the Ministry of Defence for four Members to participate in a Thursday War.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from the MoD's Chief Scientific Adviser.—(The Chairman.)

    The Defence Geographic Imagery and Intelligence Agency: Air Vice-Marshal Joe French, Director General Intelligence and Geographic Resources (DGIGR), Group Captain Stephen Lloyd, JARIC Chief Executive, and Brigadier Philip Wildman OBE, Military Survey Chief Executive, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 15 December at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 15 DECEMBER 1999

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit the Gulf in connection with its inquiry into Iraqi No-Fly Zones.—(The Chairman.)

    Ordered, That the Chairman do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the said visit.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence on the 1999 Defence White Paper on 12 and 19 January.—(The Chairman.)

    Gulf Veterans' Illnesses: Mr Shaun Rusling, Chairman, Dr Doug Rokke, Adviser to the US Department of Defense on depleted uranium, National Gulf Veterans & Families Association; Mr Tony Duff, Secretary, Professor Malcolm Hooper, Scientific Adviser, Gulf Veterans Association; Mr John Dennis and Dr Hari Sharma, University of Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 12 January at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 12 JANUARY 2000

[MORNING SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from the Secretary of State for Defence on European Security and Defence.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence on the adapted Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty when it is presented to Parliament.—(The Chairman.)

    The Defence White Paper 1999 and the 1998-99 MoD Performance Report: Mr Colin Balmer, Principal Finance Officer, Major-General John Kiszely MC, Assistant Chief of Defence Staff (Resources and Plans) and Mr Trevor Woolley, Director General (Resources and Plans), Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till this day at a quarter past Four o'clock.

[AFTERNOON SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated

    The Defence White Paper 1999 and the 1998-99 MoD Performance Report: Sir Robert Walmsley KCB, Chief of Defence Procurement, Mr Nick Witney, Director General Equipment, General Sir Sam Cowan KCB CBE, Chief of Defence Logistics, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Tuesday 18 January at Five o'clock.

TUESDAY 18 JANUARY 2000

The Committee met concurrently with the Defence, Foreign
Affairs and International Development Committees

    

Members present:

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Bruce George

    The following Members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of Standing Order No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments).

    

Mr Tony Baldry
Mr Martin O'Neill
Mr Roger Berry

    The following Members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of Standing Order No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments).

    

Ms Diane Abbott
Mr David Chidgey
Sir Peter Emery
Mr Ted Rowlands
Sir John Stanley

    The following Members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of Standing Order No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments).

    

Ann Clwyd
Mr Nigel Jones
Mr Piara S Khabra
Mr Andrew Rowe

    Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

    The Committees deliberated.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 19 January at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 19 JANUARY 2000

[MORNING SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence on the Armed Forces Discipline Bill [Lords].—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee publish on the internet two uncorrected transcripts for the evidence sessions with Mr John Spellar, a Member of the House, Minister for the Armed Forces, and the Rt. Hon. Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Defence.—(The Chairman.)

    The Defence White Paper 1999 and the 1998-99 MoD Performance Report: Mr John Spellar, a Member of the House, Minister of State for the Armed Forces, Air Marshal Malcolm Pledger OBE AFC FRAeS, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Personnel), Vice-Admiral Sir Ian Garnett KCB, Chief of Joint Operations, General Sir Alex Harley KBE CB, Adjutant General, Air Marshal Sir Anthony Bagnall KCB OBE FRAeS, Air Member for Personnel, and Commodore Peter Wykeham-Martin, Director, Naval Personnel Corporate Programming, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till this day at a quarter-past Four o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 19 JANUARY 2000

[AFTERNOON SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Mike Gapes
Mrs Laura Moffat

    The Committee deliberated.

    The Defence White Paper 1999 and the 1998-99 MoD Performance Report: Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Defence, Mr Kevin Tebbit CMG, Permanent Secretary, Mr Richard Hatfield CBE, Policy Director Air Marshal Sir John Day KCB, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Commitments), Ministry of Defence and Mr John Howe CB, Deputy Chief Executive, Defence Procurement Agency, were examined and Air Marshal Malcolm Pledger OBE AFC FRAeS, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Personnel), Ministry of Defence, was further examined.

[Adjourned till Wednesday 2 February at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 2 FEBRUARY

[MORNING SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Special Report [Annual Report of the Committee for Session 1998–99], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 59 read and agreed to.

    Annexes A to F agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the First Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Special Report.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Sixth Report from the Committee of Session 1998-99 on The Reserves Call Out Order 1999 and Progress on Territorial Army Restructuring] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Second Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Seventh Report from the Committee of Session 1998-99 on the Strategic Defence Review: Defence Medical Services] brought up, read the first and second time and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Third Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Eighth Report from the Committee of Session 1998-99 on Annual Major Procurement Projects Survey: The Common New Generation Frigate Programme] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Ninth Report of the Defence Committee of Session 1998-99 on Defence Research] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Special Report of the Committee to the House.
Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the First Report from the Committee of Session 1999-2000 on the OCCAR Convention] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Report [Ministry of Defence Annual Reporting Cycle], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 169 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Second Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.

    

[Adjourned till this day at Five o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 2 FEBRUARY 2000

[AFTERNOON SITTING]

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently

Members present:

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin
Mr Bruce George

    The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Ms Diane Abbott
Mr David Chidgey
Sir Peter Emery
Mr Ted Rowlands
Sir John Stanley

    The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Ann Clwyd
Mr Piara S Khabra
Mr Andrew Rowe

    The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Mr Tony Baldry
Mr Roger Berry
Mr Martin O'Neill

    Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

    The Committees deliberated.

    

[Adjourned till this day at Seven o'clock.

   

    

WEDNESDAY 2 FEBRUARY 2000

[EVENING SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Michael Colvin

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report (Annual Reports for 1997 and 1998 on Strategic Export Controls), proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 86 read and agreed to.

    Annexes agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Third Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No.134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.

    [Adjourned to a time and place to be fixed by the Chairman.

    

THURSDAY 10 FEBRUARY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit Italy and Cyprus in connection with its inquiries into Iraqi No-Fly Zones and Lessons of Kosovo.—(The Chairman.)

    Ordered, That the Chairman do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the said visit.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee publish on the internet the uncorrected transcript of today's evidence session from the Minister for the Armed Forces.—(The Chairman.)

    Armed Forces Discipline Bill [Lords.]: Mr John Spellar, a Member of the House, Minister for the Armed Forces; Mr Jason Betteley, Legal Adviser; Brigadier Andrew Ritchie, CBE, Director of Personal Services (Army); Commodore David Humphrey, Chief Naval Judge Advocate; Air Commodore Rick Charles, Deputy Director of Legal Services (RAF) and Mr David Woodhead, Head of Armed Forces Bill team, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Tuesday 15 February at 10 o'clock.
   

TUESDAY 15 FEBRUARY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Dr Julian Lewis

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [Armed Forces Discipline Bill[Lords]], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 33 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Fourth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    A paper was ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 16 February at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 16 FEBRUARY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Crispin Blunt
Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Mrs Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the uncorrected transcripts of today's evidence from the Secretary of State be made available on the internet.—(The Chairman.)

    European Security and Defence: Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Defence and Mr Richard Hatfield CBE, Policy Director, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Tuesday 29 February at half-past Four oclock.

   

TUESDAY 29 FEBRUARY 2000

The Defence, Foreign Affairs and International Development Committees met concurrently

Members present:

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Bruce George
Dr Julian Lewis
Mr Peter Viggers

    The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Ms Diane Abbott
Sir Peter Emery
Mr Norman Godman
Mr Ted Rowlands
Sir John Stanley

    The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Ann Clwyd
Mr Piara S Khabra

    Mr Martin O'Neill also attended

    Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

    The Committees deliberated.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 1 March at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 1 MARCH

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Mrs Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Kuwait from 31st March to 4th April in connection with its inquiry into Iraqi No-Fly Zones.—(The Chairman.)

    Agreement on the Adaptation of the Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe (CFE): Mr Brian Hawtin CB, Director General, International Security Policy, Mr Paul Schulte, Director of Proliferation and Arms Control Secretariat, Colonel John Eliot, Assistant Director of Proliferation and Arms Control Secretariat, Ministry of Defence; Mr Owen Jenkins, former Head of CFE Section, Foreign and Commonwealth Office, were examined.

    In the absence of the Chairman, Mr Peter Viggers was called to the Chair.

    The witnesses were further examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 8 March at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 8 MARCH

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Ordered, That Mr Peter Viggers be a representative on the joint inquiry with the Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees, in place of Mr Michael Colvin.–(The Chairman.)

    The Appointment of the MoD's New Chief Scientific Adviser: Professor Sir Keith D'Onions FRS, Chief Scientific Adviser, Ministry of Defence, was examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 15 March at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 15 MARCH

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That Dr Julian Lewis do represent the Committee at the memorial service for the late Mr Michael Colvin.

    Resolved, That Mr Harry Cohen do represent the Committee on the joint visit to Washington of the Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees in connection with their inquiry into Strategic Export Controls.—(The Chairman.)

    Lessons of Kosovo: Mr Kevin Tebbit, Permanent Secretary, General Sir Charles Guthrie GCB LVO OBE, Chief of the Defence Staff, Air Marshal Sir John Day KCB OBE, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Commitments) and Mr Simon Webb CBE, Director General Operations Policy, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 22 March at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 22 MARCH

Members present:

Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Vice-Admiral Sir Ian Garnett KCB, Chief of Joint Operations, Air Commodore Vaughan Morris, Commander Tom Herman OBE, Commander Richard Hawkins, and Air Commodore Glenn Torpy, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 29 March at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 29 MARCH

Members present:

Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt

The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [The Defence Geographic and Imagery Intelligence Agency], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 23 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Fifth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That part of the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    Resolved, That the Committee do take evidence from General Klaus Naumann, a German citizen, in relation to its inquiry into the Lessons of Kosovo.—(The Chairman.)

    Ordered, That at this day's sitting the public be not admitted during the examination of witnesses.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Vice-Admiral Sir Alan West DSC, Chief of Defence Intelligence, and Mr Richard Hatfield CBE, Policy Director, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 12 April at Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 12 APRIL

Members present:

Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt

In the absence of the Chairman, Mr Jimmy Hood was called to the Chair.

    The Committee deliberated.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Vice-Admiral Sir Jeremy Blackham KCB, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Equipment Capability), Air Vice-Marshal Steve Nicholl CBE AFC, Capability Manager (Strike), Mr Carl Mantell, Director, Capability, Resources and Scrutiny, Brigadier Andrew Figgures CBE, Director, Equipment Capability (Direct Battlefield Engagement) and Brigadier Ian Rees, Director, Defence Physical Supply Chain, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 19 April at half-past Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 19 APRIL

[MORNING SITTING]

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [Appointment of the New Chief Scientific Adviser], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 25 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    The Committee further deliberated.

    Draft Report [Gulf Veterans' Illnesses], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 97 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    The Committee further deliberated.

    Draft Report [European Security and Defence], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That further consideration of the Chairman's draft Report be now adjourned.—(The Chairman.)

    

[Adjourned till this day at quarter-past Four o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 19 APRIL

[AFTERNOON SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Iraqi No-Fly Zones: Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Defence, Air Commodore Glen Torpy, Director, Air Operations PJHQ and Mr Simon Webb CBE, Director General, Operational Policy, Ministry of Defence, examined.

    Ordered, That the Committee do sit in private.—(The Chairman.)

    Draft Report [European Security and Defence], proposed by the Chairman, again brought up and read.

    Ordered, That further consideration of the Chairman's draft Report be now adjourned.—(Dr Julian Lewis.)

    

[Adjourned till this day at half-past Seven o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 19 APRIL

[EVENING SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [European Security and Defence], proposed by the Chairman, again brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 91 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    The Committee further deliberated.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Second Report from the Committee on the Ministry of Defence Annual Reporting Cycle] brought up, read the first and second time and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Seventh Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 3 May at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 3 MAY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Defence Evaluation and Research Agency: Baroness Symons of Vernham Dean, a Member of the House of Lords, Minister for Defence Procurement, Sir John Chisholm, FREng, Chief Executive of DERA, and Mr Terence Jagger, Head of MoD's DERA Partnering Team, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Thursday 4 May at half-past Four o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 10 MAY

[MORNING SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair.

    

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Lieutenant-General Sir Michael Jackson KCB CBE and Major-General John Reith CBE were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 10 May at quarter-past Four o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 10 MAY

[AFTERNOON SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair.

    

Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Mr Mark Laity, Mr Jonathan Marcus, BBC World Service, Mr John Simpson, BBC World Affairs Editor, Mr Mark Urban, BBC Newsnight, and Mr Peter Almond, Chairman, Defence Correspondents Association, were examined.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Ms Oona Muirhead, former Director of Information Services and News and Mr John Pitt-Brooke, current Director of Information Services and News, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 17 May at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 17 MAY

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair.

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Sir John Goulden KCMG, UK Permanent Representative to the North Atlantic Council, and Vice-Admiral Paul Haddacks, UK Military Representative to NATO, were examined.

    Lessons of Kosovo: General Sir Rupert Smith KCB, Deputy Supreme Allied Commander Europe (DSACEUR), was examined.

    

[Adjourned till 23 May at quarter past Four o'clock.

TUESDAY 23 MAY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Annual Major Procurement Projects Survey: Sir Robert Walmsley KCB, Chief of Defence Procurement and Chief Executive of the Defence Procurement Agency, Vice-Admiral Sir Jeremy Blackham, KCB, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Equipment Capability), and Mr Nick Witney, Director General Equipment, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till tomorrow at Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 24 MAY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Fifth Report from the Committee on the Defence Geographic and Imagery Intelligence Agency] brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Eighth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered that the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Annual Major Procurement Projects Survey: Sir Robert Walmsley KCB, Chief of Defence Procurement and Chief Executive of the Defence Procurement Agency, Vice-Admiral Sir Jeremy Blackham, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Equipment Capability), and Mr Nick Witney, Director General Equipment, Ministry of Defence, were further examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 7th June at twenty minutes past Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 7 JUNE

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit Moscow and Kyiv in connection with its inquiry into National Missile Defence and related matters—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the said visit.—(The Chairman.)

    Lessons of Kosovo: General Klaus Naumann, a citizen of the Federal Republic of Germany, was examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 21 June at Ten o'clock.

   

TUESDAY 20 JUNE

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Ordered, That at this day's sitting, Strangers be not admitted during the examination of witnesses.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Rt Hon Dr the Lord Gilbert, a Member of the House of Lords, was examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 21 June at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 21 JUNE

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Second Clerk of the Committee do visit Portsmouth on behalf of the Committee in connection with its inquiry into Armed Forces personnel issues.

    Lessons of Kosovo: Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Defence, Rear-Admiral Simon Moore, Assistant Chief of the Defence Staff (Operations), and Mr Simon Webb CBE, Director General, Operations Policy, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 28 June at Eleven o'clock.

   

    

WEDNESDAY 28 JUNE

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mr Peter Viggers

        The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [Major Procurement Projects], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 70 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Tenth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit Strike Command.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit Faslane.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do again seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with a visit to Kyiv.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee do inquire into Armed Forces Personnel.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That Members of the Committee do visit certain Armed Forces Units in a representative capacity.—(The Chairman.)

    Resolved, That the Committee seek the agreement of the Ministry of Defence to advertise for evidence in appropriate MoD publications.—(The Chairman.)

    

[Adjourned till Tuesday 4 July at Ten o'clock.

   

TUESDAY 4 JULY 2000

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

Members present:

Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Bruce George
Mr Peter Viggers

    The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Mr Norman Godman
Mr Ted Rowlands
Sir John Stanley

    The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Ann Clwyd
Mr Piara S Khabra
Mr Andrew Rowe

    The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Mr Tony Baldry
Mr Roger Berry
Mr Martin O'Neill

    Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

    The Committees deliberated.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 5 July at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 5 JULY

Members present:

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

In the absence of the Chairman, Mr Peter Viggers was called to the Chair.

    The Committee deliberated.

    Armed Forces Personnel: Dr Christopher Coker, Department of International Relations, London School of Economics, Professor Christopher Dandeker, Head of War Studies Department, King's College London and Professor Hew Strachan, Director, Scottish Centre for War Studies, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 12 July at half-past Ten o'clock.

   

WEDNESDAY 12 JULY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Ordered, That Mr Jimmy Hood do visit Slovenia in July to attend a conference, Europe on the turn of the Millennium: values and conflicts, in a representative capacity.—(The Chairman.)

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Sixth Report of the Committee: The Appointment of the new Chief Scientific Adviser], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Ninth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Eighth Report of the Committee: European Security and Defence], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Tenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    

[Adjourned till Monday 17 July at Ten o'clock.

MONDAY 17 JULY 2000

[MORNING SITTING]

The Defence, Foreign Affairs, International Development and Trade and Industry Committees met concurrently.

Members present:

Mr Harry Cohen
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The following members of the Foreign Affairs Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Ms Diane Abbott
Mr Ted Rowlands
Sir John Stanley
Dr Phyllis Starkey

    The following members of the International Development Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Mr Tony Colman
Mr Piara S Khabra
Ms Tess Kingham
Mr Tony Worthington

    The following members of the Trade and Industry Committee were also present, pursuant to paragraph (4)(e) of S.O. No. 152 (Select committees related to government departments):

    

Mr Tony Baldry
Mr Roger Berry
Mr Martin O'Neill

    Mr Ted Rowlands was called to the Chair.

    The Committees deliberated.

    

[Adjourned till this day at half-past Twelve o'clock.

    

MONDAY 17 JULY 2000

[AFTERNOON SITTING]

Members present:

Mr Harry Cohen
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    In the absence of the Chairman, Mr Peter Viggers was called to the Chair.

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [Strategic Export Controls: Further Report and Parliamentary Prior Scrutiny], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 90 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Eleventh Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No.134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    Several papers were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 19 July at Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 19 JULY

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Armed Forces Personnel: Air Marshal Malcolm Pledger OBE AFC FRAeS, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff (Personnel), Vice-Admiral Peter Spencer ADC, Second Sea Lord, Lieutenant-General T J Granville-Chapman CBE, Adjutant General, Air Marshal Sir John Day, Air Member for Personnel, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 26 July at Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 26 JULY

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Report [Adaptation of the Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 57 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Twelfth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    Draft Report [Iraqi No-Fly Zones], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.
The Minutes of Proceedings relating to the consideration of the Report are published in the Thirteenth Report from the Defence Committee, Session 1999-2000 (HC 453, pp.xxxiii–xxxix).

    

[Adjourned till Tuesday 10 October at Eleven o'clock.
   

TUESDAY 10 OCTOBER

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Committee's Ninth Report: The Future of DERA], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Twelfth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Committee's Tenth Report: Major Procurement Projects], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Thirteenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Draft Report [Lessons of Kosovo], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 344 read and agreed to.

    Annexes A and B read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Fourteenth Report of the Committee to the House.

    Ordered, That the texts of UNSCR 1199 and 1203, and the Military Annex to the draft Rambouillet Accords be appended to the Report.—(Mr Mike Gapes.)

    Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

    Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134 (Select committees (reports)) be applied to the Report.

    Ordered, That several papers be appended to the Report.

    Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.

    The Committee further deliberated.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 25 October at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 25 OCTOBER

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

The Committee deliberated.

    Draft Special Report [Defence Geographic and Imagery Intelligence Agency: Further Evidence relating to the Fifth Report from the Committee], proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

    Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time, paragraph by paragraph.

    Paragraphs 1 to 4 read and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Thirteenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Twelfth Report from the Committee: The Adaptation of the Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Fifteenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    Draft Special Report [Government Observations on the Thirteenth Report from the Committee: Iraqi No-Fly Zones], proposed by the Chairman, brought up, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

    Resolved, That the Report be the Sixteenth Special Report of the Committee to the House.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 1 November at Ten o'clock.
   

WEDNESDAY 1 NOVEMBER

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit the Defence Aviation Repair Agency.—(The Chairman.)

    Armed Forces Personnel: Air Marshal Malcolm Pledger, Deputy Chief of Defence Staff (Personnel), Vice-Admiral Peter Spencer ADC, Second Sea Lord, Lieutenant-General Tim Granville-Chapman, Adjutant General and Air Marshal Sir John Day, Air Member for Personnel, were further examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 8 November at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 8 NOVEMBER

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Jimmy Hood
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Resolved, That the Committee do visit Bosnia and Kosovo in connection with its inquiry into peace support operations in the Balkans.—(The Chairman.)

    Ordered, That the Chairman do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the said visit.

    Ordered, That the Chairman and Clerk do visit Paris to attend the Conference of European Union Parliamentary Defence Committee Chairmen in a representative capacity.—(The Chairman.)

    Ordered, That the Chairman do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the said visit.

    The Reserve Forces: Brigadier Andrew Durcan, Inspector General, TA, Land Command, Ms Diana Seammen, Command Secretary, Land Command, Air Vice-Marshal Nigel Sudborough, Deputy Chief of Staff Operations HQ Strike Command, and Brigadier Richard Holmes OBE, Director, Reserve Forces and Cadets, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    Colonel Mike Taylor CBE TD DL, Chairman, Council of the Reserve Forces and Cadets Associations, Colonel Patrick Robinson TD DL, Chairman, West Midland Reserve Forces and Cadets Association, and Commodore Ian Pemberton RD** DL, Chairman, Wessex Reserve Forces and Cadets Association, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 15 November at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 15 NOVEMBER

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Mr Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Armed Forces Personnel: Vice-Admiral Jonathon Band, Head, Mr David Fisher, Director, Defence Training Review, Ministry of Defence, were examined.

    Air Vice-Marshal Brian Burridge CBE, Commandant, Joint Services Command and Staff College (JCSCS), Air Vice-Marshal H Gavin Mackay OBE, Commandant, RAF College Cranwell, Commodore Mark Kerr ADC, Commandant, Britannia Royal Naval College, Dartmouth, Major-General Arthur Denaro CBE, Commandant, Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst, Major-General John C B Sutherell CBE, Commandant, Royal Military College of Science (RMCS), were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 22 November at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 22 NOVEMBER

Members present:

Mr Bruce George, in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Harry Cohen
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Laura Moffatt

    The Committee deliberated.

    Armed Forces Personnel: Lizzie Iron, Chairman, Army Families Federation, Maxine James, Chairman, Association for Royal Navy and Royal Marine Families, Denise Mountain, Chair, Airwaves, were examined.

    Commodore Paul Branscombe CBE, Deputy Controller, Services Support, Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association, was examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 29 November at Ten o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 29 NOVEMBER 2000

Members present:

Mr Bruce George in the Chair

Mr Julian Brazier
Mr Jamie Cann
Mr Mike Gapes
Mr Mike Hancock
Mr Stephen Hepburn
Mr Jimmy Hood
Dr Julian Lewis
Laura Moffatt
Peter Viggers

    The Committee deliberated.

    Armed Forces Personnel: Mr John Wilson, Chief Executive, Defence Housing Executive, was examined.

    Major-General Anthony Palmer CBE, Director General, Army Training and Recruiting Agency (ATRA); Rear-Admiral John Chadwick, Chief Executive, Navy Recruiting and Training Agency (NTRA) and Air Vice-Marshal Ian Corbitt, Chief Executive, RAF Training Group Defence Agency, were examined.

    

[Adjourned till Wednesday 6 December at a quarter to Four o'clock.


 
 
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Prepared: 25 January 2001