PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE RELATING
TO THE REPORT
Tuesday 20 June 2000
Members present:
| Charlotte Atkins | Helen Jones
|
| Valerie Davey | Mr Stephen O'Brien
|
| Mr Derek Foster | Mr Barry Sheerman
|
| Dr Evan Harris | Mr Nick St Aubyn
|
Resolved, That, for this day's sitting, Mr Barry
Sheerman do take the Chair of the Committee.—(Mr Derek
Foster.)
The Committee deliberated.
Report from the Education Sub-committee [The Role
of Private Sector Organisations in Public Education] brought up
and read the first time.
Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph
by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 27 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 28 read, amended, and agreed to.
Paragraphs 29 and 30 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 31 read as follows:
"We have considered whether there is sufficient
capacity in the private sector to meet the likely demand for management
services in local authorities where traditional approaches to
service provision have significantly under-performed. During our
inquiry we took evidence from four of the ten contractors on the
DfEE's list of approved providers. The majority of organisations
on the DfEE's approved list have experience of both delivering
educational services in the public sector as well as providing
management skills in the private sector. This balance of skills
and experience brings particular benefits based on the combined
strengths of the public and private sector organisations. We do
not consider that private sector organisations are inherently
more skilled or are more likely to achieve high standards than
public sector organisations. The involvement of the private sector
in public services is no panacea. There are well known examples
in other Government departments where the contracting out public
services has led to disappointing results. In many cases of private
sector involvement the same staff will be delivering the service
after it has been transferred to an external provider. Mr Neil
McIntosh of CfBT Education Services stated that the staff employed
by a private company were often the same staff, or had the same
skills and experience, as those employed by the LEA. He argued
that what made the difference was not the calibre of staff, but
the way in which the service was managed. Mr McIntosh noted the
example of CfBT Education Service's management of Berkshire's
careers service. He told us:
"We are using the same
individuals. They are perfectly good, these people running the
careers service in Berkshire now, but they have been set free
by the management culture that applies in our organisation. That
is not a product of our being private sector. It is a product
of our being in a competitive situation and having to be, therefore,
more rigorous".
Mr McIntosh concluded that in his experience private
companies could manage education services better than some schools
and better than some local education authorities, but that they
"would not be better than the best local authority and would
not be better than the best school"."
Amendment proposed, in line 8, after the word "organisations",
to insert the words "Among the potential benefits of introducing
the private sector into the management of maintained schools are:
- robust structures to
deliver a consistent standard of teaching;
- innovative and original educational strategies;
- a new pool of managerial talent; and
- alternative sources of funding.
There is no innate advantage in involving the private
sector in the management of schools and each case must be examined
on its merits."—(Mr Nick St Aubyn.)
Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment, in
line 4, to leave out the words "robust structures to deliver
a consistent standard of teaching".—(Valerie Davey.)
Question, That the Amendment be made to the proposed
Amendment, put and negatived.
Another Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment,
in line 5 , to leave out the words "and original".—(Valerie
Davey.)
Question, That the Amendment be made to the proposed
Amendment, put and negatived.
Amendment made.
Another Amendment made.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 32 read as follows:
"In our report on the role of headteachers we
considered whether school leaders should have teaching experience,
and concluded that school leaders required a balance of education
and management skills for all but the most exceptional individuals.
Similarly we conclude that the most effective intervention and
involvement in local authorities will probably rely on external
organisations having both the management skills associated with
the private sector, as well as the experience of delivering educational
services in the public sector. We consider that organisations
without any direct experience of managing education services are
unlikely to have the expertise to regenerate underperforming
education services. We therefore recommend that the DfEE should
develop means by which exemplary public sector organisations,
particularly local education authorities, may work more easily
with other, less successful, parts of the state education service."
Amendment proposed, in line 7, to leave out from
the word "services" to the word "expertise"
in line 8 and insert the words "will need to work in partnership
with those possessing that".—(Mr Nick St Aubyn.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 4 | Noes, 2
|
| Dr Evan Harris | Charlotte Atkins
|
| Helen Jones | Valerie Davey
|
| Mr Stephen O'Brien |
|
| Mr Nick St Aubyn |
|
Another Amendment made.
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 33 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 34 read, amended, and agreed to.
Paragraphs 35 to 58 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 59 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 60 to 68 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 69 read, amended, and agreed to.
Paragraphs 70 to 74 read and agreed to.
Resolved, That the Minutes of Proceedings of the Employment
Sub-committee relating to the Report be annexed to the Report.
Resolved, That the Report, as amended, be the Seventh Report
of the Committee to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134
(Select committees (reports)) be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.
Several Papers were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of Evidence.
Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence
be reported to the House.—(The Chairman.)
Several Memoranda were ordered to be reported to the House.
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