Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1120
- 1128)
WEDNESDAY 26 JULY 2000
BARONESS BLACKSTONE,
MRS VANESSA
NICHOLLS AND
MR MICHAEL
HIPKINS
1120. One thing has gone right through our hearings,
and that is really the unstated criteria. We have heard a lot
in this Committee about the mystification and the need for demystification.
We were quite surprised listening to UCAS and listening to people
from colleges talking about this demystification, the unstated
criteria. Dr John Brennan from the Association of Colleges told
our Committee that schools and colleges were sometimes frustrated
by the unstated criteria in relation to individual departments
on individual courses. What is the Department's view on that?
Coming back to how we started this session, what we are finding
is that out there students and colleges do not feel the same about
the process of getting into university as the university feels
about it. It does seem that there are all sorts of barriers, particularly
barriers to people from less advantaged social backgrounds.
(Baroness Blackstone) Mystification has to be bad.
That is why I said earlier that the Government wants to see a
very clear and very transparent system for admitting both young
people and mature students to our universities and higher education
colleges. What we also need to see is rather more contact and
discussion between the sectors that are moving the young people
on into higher education and higher education itself. I hope that
some of the funding that we have provided will go to these contacts,
especially between those schools that traditionally send a rather
small number of students into higher education and their local
universities and, indeed, universities further afield. I think
that will help the demystification process. I think it will provide
more and better information. It will give those schools that do
not know enough about how universities make their choices more
opportunities to understand that. I also think it will force universities
to, if you like, be absolutely clear about how they do it.
Mr Marsden
1121. On this issue of targeting access, we
have had quite disturbing evidence before this Committee from
the Four Counties Group about particular participation in the
eastern region and more general evidence, not just to this Committee
but elsewhere, about very, very low levels of participation, in
particular geographical areas of the country. Are you concerned
about those so-called cold spots and are there things that you
can do in targeting the funding to address them?
(Baroness Blackstone) Yes, I think there are obviously
particular regions or often subregions—I do not think there
is usually a whole region—where there are clearly figures
which demonstrate that even when you take into account all of
the other indices of disadvantage the position is worse than in
others. That is something that we should look at and we should
come up with ways of trying to improve it, I think not just by
extra resources but also by making that evidence available to
people in those areas and encouraging universities in particular
to reach out to them because there must be a lot of potential
there that is being wasted.
Dr Harris
1122. I will ask you a yes or no question.
(Baroness Blackstone) I am not sure I will be able
to manage that.
1123. I will try not to be hypothetical—this
is an inquiry into the future somewhat—can I turn to this
question of top-up fees, because it is the issue that a lot of
potential students are worried about as well? The Government said
it had no plans to introduce tuition fees, they said that in the
election campaign, and then they were introduced. Clearly that
is not the right question to ask you. Can I ask you whether the
Government rules out top-up fees and allowing them to be introduced
by universities for the whole of the next Parliament?
(Baroness Blackstone) What I have already said is
that the Government has made its position on top-up fees absolutely
clear. We have taken out reserve powers. Those reserve powers
will continue to be part of the legislation. It is no part of
our policy to promote or introduce top-up fees. I cannot make
my position, and that of the Government, clearer.
Mr St Aubyn
1124. We heard evidence in a previous session
of how changes in the way the new Connexions service is being
funded means there will be less money available to persuade bright
kids of the age of 14 to 16—when many should be making up
their minds about higher education—that that is the route
for them. Is there not a contradiction between putting £20
million into encouraging access for bright kids and at same time
cutting the money available through the Connexions service to
fund advice at an early, formative stage in those children's development?
(Baroness Blackstone) I am not sure who said that
in a previous session.
1125. It was one of the unions when they came
to give us evidence.
(Baroness Blackstone) All I can say is that it is
not true. Funding for Connexions has not been cut. That is a new
service. There are substantial amounts of additional funding being
provided to get that service off the ground. There can be absolutely
no argument about this.
1126. The resources currently available to advise
brighter kids on what they should be doing at that age will not
be cut as a result of the change in the requirements and the targets
for the Connexions service?
(Baroness Blackstone) No.
Chairman
1127. That is a good short answer. Before we
finish, is there anything else you want to say, given this is
the final session? We have had some excellent evidence, ten evidence
sessions, and I am sure we are going to write an extremely good
report on access. Is there anything that you think, in a addition
to what we discussed today, we should be considering in our report?
(Baroness Blackstone) All I want to say is I am delighted
you have decided to take this as one of your topics during this
session. The Government really looks forward to reading your report.
We want as many ideas on how to crack what is a long standing
problem in our system. We do regard it as very important. We think
we have started to make, at least, some inroads into this in the
additional funding we are providing at institutional levels and
the additional funding we are providing for individual students.
I have not mentioned things like school meal grants, child care
grants for mature students. I have not mentioned things like making
disabled students' allowances available to part-time students,
which was not the case before, and to postgraduate students. All
of these things ought to help. Of course, we have to continue
to evaluate and monitor the new schemes that we are bringing in.
Where they work I hope we may be able to find additional funding,
and where they do not we will have to think again.
1128. Thank you, Minister. I can assure you
this Committee will give you plenty of ideas in our report. Thank
you for your attendance. Thank you very much for rearranging this
for today. Thank you.
(Baroness Blackstone) Thank you very much.
| 
