Examination of Witnesses (Questions 220
- 223)
TUESDAY 15 FEBRUARY 2000
RT HON
JOHN PRESCOTT,
MP AND RT
HON MICHAEL
MEACHER, MP
220. I think we can agree that in order to make
measurements we have to have baselines and those baselines must
be set at a point in time and we do not have any indication that
that is being done at the moment.
(Mr Prescott) At Kyoto we were set a baseline internationally.
We measured what the pollution was in 1990. In some cases we have
a clear baseline to be measured against. In others, such as wildlife,
it is difficult to say that. We seek to secure that. Improvement
in rivers is easily measurable and we have yearly measurements
to achieve that. It is about getting a balance, but the real point
is being practical about what you have promised. I think what
would be terrible is if you set a whole series of targets and
you failed to meet them totally and gave all the people the reasons
why as that discourages people's beliefs that you can set targets
and get improvement. I think what comes out of the discussions
this morning is that whilst we as Government are always thinking
things can be done by legislation and regulation, we are trying
to affect the culture, that is not the only thing that determines
and changes people's attitude and secures the target of a better
quality of life that we have set for ourselves. We are hopeful
that will be the case. I do not think we sit here in Parliament
and presume we play a major part in changing those things. It
is not only about legislation or regulation, it is about people's
attitudes and responses to these matters. We are responsible for
that framework of legislation and regulation. We offer the hope
at the moment that it is going to make that change. We have set
the targets. We will be judged and no doubt answerable for it
and we await that day.
221. Can I go on now to reporting progress on
what we have been discussing this morning. How will progress against
the SDS be monitored and reported to Government?
(Mr Meacher) Clearly we are monitoring this all the
time, the Sustainable Development Unit is doing that. We are going
to produce an annual review of the Sustainable Development Strategy.
We would expect that to be produced in the summer or early autumn.
We will have the Green Ministers' second report which will probably
be produced in July and, of course, we will have the spending
White Paper which we are saying will certainly include sustainable
development to a significantly greater degree than before. That
will also probably be published in July. So there are a series
of reports coming out which will give monitoring data. The Green
Ministers' report is aimed at Government performance because although
the Government is a tiny part of a society or economy, it is highly
symbolic and setting the tone is very important. The wider impact
will be assessed in these annual reviews. The Sustainable Development
Strategy some people think is not quite a strategy, it is more
a framework and it is delivered through a series of strategies
which fall below it. One is thinking of the chemical strategy
which we have launched. I suppose you could say the climate change
strategy document is certainly part of that. We have had the periodic
review in the case of water, we have the waste strategy and we
have got the air quality strategy and I have no doubt there will
be others, including construction. We are looking at the monitoring
of it not simply through a centralized mechanism but through the
delivery mechanisms and we will be monitoring the success of each
of those.
222. So we are going to have a lot to debate,
Minister. Can we assume, therefore, that there will be an annual
debate on sustainable development, please? Is that a possibility?
(Mr Prescott) It sounds like a good idea. Why not?
There is a lot to measure it against anyway.
223. That has got both of you committed. Previously
it was just the Minister.
(Mr Prescott) We do it with public expenditure. We
think that this Committee is a very important Committee, that
is why we wanted to see it established and I think it should have
that kind of debate and if we want to be more transparent and
have more people involved the debate will help that process.
Chairman: That is a very good note to
finish on. Thank you very much indeed.
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