Examination of witnesses (Questions 68
- 79)
WEDNESDAY 16 FEBRUARY 2000
MRS MAVIS
MCDONALD
and MR JEFF
JACOBS
Chairman
68. You are our last set of witnesses this morning,
can I welcome you to the Committee. Can I apologise, we are overrunning,
however, I hope you agree we have had a very interesting session
so far. Could I ask you to identify yourselves for the record,
please?
(Mrs McDonald) I am Mavis McDonald, the Director General
responsible for Housing, Construction, Regeneration and Countryside
in the Department.
(Mr Jacobs) I am Jeff Jacobs, the Director of Town
and Country Planning in the Department.
69. Do you want to say anything by way of introduction
or are you happy to go straight to questions?
(Mrs McDonald) We are happy to go straight to questions.
Miss McIntosh
70. The White Paper seems to be rather a long
time in the coming, I wonder if you could give us some guidance
as to when it might be published? Could we expect it before the
first anniversary of Lord Rogers' Report? Are you able to inform
us if there are any departments which you are still waiting to
hear back from?
(Mrs McDonald) I am not sure that I can guarantee
it will be published before the first anniversary of the publication
of Lord Rogers' Report. Ministers are now intending to publish
it after the Spending Review has finished and we are not anticipating
the Chancellor to make any announcements on that until before
the summer recess, some time in July. The answer to the second
part of your question, we are working with the key departments.
Together, as it were, we have various interdepartmental groups,
which includes the Local Government Association. We do not view
ourselves as waiting for anybody, we are trying to keep in step
with each other as policy developments emerge and some are announced.
71. Would it be wrong to infer there was any
disagreement amongst ministers or other departments?
(Mrs McDonald) Yes.
Chairman: There is no disagreement between ministers
at all?
Mr Gray
72. That is a first.
(Mrs McDonald) There is no disagreement about the
main objectives for the White Paper, which were set out in the
memorandum we put to the Select Committee, which were signed by
my colleagues in Government. There are specific issues about what
precise recommendations or proposals might be in the White Paper
which are yet to be resolved.
Mrs Dunwoody
73. That is not a disagreement, that is a mild
diversion of opinion.
(Mrs McDonald) I do not know yet whether there will
be disagreement.
Miss McIntosh
74. Many of the witnesses have endorsed the
call for a wide strategic vision of British cities, is this a
vision you think will be reflected in the White Paper? What do
you think the key elements and key policies will be in the White
Paper?
(Mrs McDonald) I think ministers are quite clear that
they want to set out, as they did in the memorandum, very precise
objectives which are for all places where people live, if I may
put it like that, which include cities, it also includes small
towns, which will be reflected in the rural White Paper in which
issues about market towns and villages are addressed. The White
Paper will not just be about cities it will be about their suburbs
as well. Within that it does not preclude them from having a particular
vision about how to make cities more competitive and better places
to live, which is one of their objectives.
75. Would the White Paper also be expected to
include social inclusion, competitiveness, urban design and sustainability?
(Mrs McDonald) Yes, it would.
Mrs Dunwoody
76. Why do you not mention urban design? You
do not mention it at all.
(Mrs McDonald) I am sorry if we did not pick it out
specifically.
77. I am not saying you should look for key
words and put it in. I am of the political generation that believes
that it is important to say things plainly. What I am saying to
you is something different, you do not mention design.
(Mrs McDonald) The fact we do not mention it in the
memorandum, and I have not mentioned it yet, does not mean it
is not a key part of the work we are doing following up Lord Rogers
Task Force.
78. Why was it not in the objectives?
(Mrs McDonald) It is covered in the objective in the
words, "a high quality of life", which ministers take
to mean both the social and physical environment in cities and
in towns.
79. That is a very interesting response. It
is not actually quite how I would define design. You have put
in paragraph 6, "Government is putting in place policies
and programmes to achieve objectives."
(Mrs McDonald) Perhaps it would be helpful if we gave
some particular examples of the work that is going on on urban
design in the Department to explain we are actually looking at
that issue. If I can just ask Jeff Jacob to expand on that point?
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