Examination of Witness (Questions 340
- 347)
WEDNESDAY 15 MARCH 2000
MR S BEEVOR
Mr Forsythe
340. How important is it to restrict out-of-town
developments to secure urban regeneration?
(Mr Beevor) It is very important. There is no doubt
that over the last 10 or 20 years we have in effect been encouraged
to decentralise. As an economy we have invested huge amounts of
money in roads, in cars and in many ways in decentralised living.
Institutions have invested in out-of-town property as a result
because that was where the risk return profile looked more attractive.
Mr Olner
341. It was easy money, was it not?
(Mr Beevor) It was more attractive from a risk return
point of view. That is the same language.
Mrs Dunwoody
342. It is the same result but it is not the
same language.
(Mr Beevor) We have more property in town centres
than out of town centres still but whereas 20 years ago virtually
all of it was in town centres it is now closer probably to one
third out of town and two thirds in town. All the new investment
has been tending to go out. We have been looking at investing
more in town centres and as an organisation we have invested a
lot in town centres in a retail sense. Offices are a different
situation. We really have decentralised a lot of offices out of
town centres other than literally London. If rumours such as the
WalMart rumour that goes around, were ever borne out, it would
turn off the potential pipeline which has now been spoken about
in town centres very rapidly. I do not want to be too blunt about
it, but I think you will understand that if we can invest out
of town at the moment compared to in town, if PPG6 is relaxed
and more out of town is granted, at least our out of town will
not be hit as much as our in town. If PPG6 holds good and there
is no more retail out of town, then we can either decide that
we will not invest any more or we will invest back in town centres.
It is an imperative that investors like stability and confidence
and if the rumours and the nervousness continues, that will undermine
that.
Chairman
343. You want to make absolutely clear that
you want the Government to stick to the present planning guidance.
(Mr Beevor) My view is that that is very important
to the economy.
344. Mixed use developments. You have told us
that the investment world is not very interested in bricks and
mortar any longer. Is it particularly unfavourable to mixed use
developments?
(Mr Beevor) Vertical mixed use, by that I mean retail,
offices and residential on top of each other, does not work very
well because of lifecycle issues. There was a lot of residential
above retail and offices and this was sold off on long leases,
99 years, 125 years, and the life cycle of the ground floor or
lower floors was very different and that caused all sorts of problems.
Horizontal mixed use, in such a way that allows segments to be
redeveloped when their lifecycle is up, is very good. I cannot
see any reason why that should not be encouraged, but we have
to think differently about making it this way rather than making
it this way.
345. We have huge resources in a lot of our
cities, do we not, where we have empty living accommodation above
shops? Ought we not be looking really dynamically to bringing
that back in? The last Government had one or two schemes to try
but it does not really seem to have made much difference. I can
see lots of shops in Stockport, in Redditch and other parts of
Tameside where you have empty property above the shops. Could
the investors not really do something to get those back into use
and save some of our green fields?
(Mr Beevor) Yes, but they probably need some encouragement.
346. Such as?
(Mr Beevor) At the moment often the properties are
even let on a long lease to the ground floor occupier who has
the whole building, so there is some sort of deal which has to
be structured there. The cost of actually getting these things
back into habitable condition often is not really an attractive
return on the rent you would get. In all honesty, the image of
some of those residential properties above shops is not such that
it attracts the right sort of occupier in such a way that it helps
the investment and the profile of the investment. There are several
issues which need to be tackled to make those things work.
Mrs Dunwoody
347. But the image can be changed by a design
consultant. You only have to look at any of the glossies to discover
that it is now fashionable to redo various flats in the centres
of cities and that can be either what are laughingly called lofts
or anything over a shop.
(Mr Beevor) I agree that if there is critical mass,
let us say a dozen or couple of dozen, then yes, you can start
creating something. If you are talking about one one-bedroomed
flat above a shop that is a different situation.
Chairman: On that perhaps rather depressing
note, may I thank you very much for your evidence?
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