Examination of Witness (Questions 520
- 539)
TUESDAY 11 APRIL 2000
MR CHRIS
SHEPLEY AND
MR BRIAN
DODD
520. Do you not think that there need to be
changes if we are going to meet the requirements of the Human
Rights Act?
(Mr Shepley) I do not think that the Human Rights
Act necessarily means changes in our complaints system, no.
521. How do you respond to Professor Grant's
evidence that there really is going to have to be a move to make
the Inspectorate much more independent of Government than it is
at the moment?
(Mr Shepley) I think on Professor Grant's evidence
generally on that point and on some of his other points I would
say that there is a wide range of opinion amongst lawyers as to
the likely effects of the Human Rights Act. He described his own
view as radical I think. Some take a radical view of the likely
impact, others take a much less radical view. I have heard it
said it will be like the millennium bug, a lot of worry and preparation
and nothing much will happen at the time. It is not dramatically
new in the sense that the Convention has been there for a long
time. Of course introducing it into our law will make a difference
but nobody yet knows how significant that difference will be or
in what areas its impact will fall. I think we must wait and see
what sort of cases come forward.
522. You think we can safely suck it and see
without putting the whole planning system into suspension?
(Mr Shepley) Yes, I do. I do not think anyone is arguing
that as a generality our system is wholly against the European
Human Rights Act. There are all sorts of safeguards and so on
already there and some changes may prove to be necessary but they
will not be fundamental. There are certain principles that are
in there which I am sure will remain.
523. So you would not really be in favour of
the Inspectorate transferring itself into a court of first instance?
(Mr Shepley) I have not yet been convinced of the
need for that.
524. Nor for an environmental court as the next
step above that?
(Mr Shepley) Nor that.
Christine Butler
525. Have you thought about it?
(Mr Shepley) Yes.
Chairman
526. Let us take you on to another issue which
is information technology and the question of whether your Inspectors
are going to be on-line working from home. When?
(Mr Shepley) I hope towards the end of next year.
The biggest constraint on us at the moment as a matter of fact
is that we are moving from our existing building to a new building
in Bristol in the spring of next year. The wiring in our existing
building is not technically able to cope with all of our Inspectors
being on-line and to wire up our existing building and then move
out of it shortly afterwards would not be good sense. If only
for that reason we will not be able to go on-line until sometime
towards the end of next year. We are talking to the union and
you are aware of the union's concerns about this. We are currently
talking to them about extending the pilot project which we have
been running now for a year or so with 26 Inspectors to another
20 or so Inspectors. I am optimistic, but not certain yet, that
we will be able to do that before the end of this year.
527. Does that in any way relate to the problems
of pay for the Inspectors?
(Mr Shepley) I think it does relate to the problems
of pay, yes.
528. Will this resolving the question of the
technology also have an impact on their pay?
(Mr Shepley) I think the issues are related, they
are not absolutely the same issue. We are in constructive discussion
with the union about solving the pay dispute.
529. It was said to me that you were a skilful
manager because you had managed to avoid a strike. Is that fair
comment?
(Mr Shepley) I think that is for others to say rather
than me, Chairman. I am very flattered.
530. What about the rates of remuneration?
(Mr Shepley) It is very difficult for me to comment
on it. I think the simple fact is that we operate within the Government's
pay policy and that is very well-known and clear. The view that
the Government ministers have taken is that the Inspectorate does
not have a recruitment and retention problem, we are able to recruit
high quality Inspectors and we get very large numbers of applications
when we advertise. We do not have Inspectors leaving in significant
numbers at all. That being the case, there is no reason for any
breach of the very tight pay policy that exists. If that is the
view of ministers my job as Chief Executive is to implement that,
and I do.
531. You do not see that it is your job to persuade
ministers that perhaps despite the fact that you have no problem
in recruiting people they are not really paid the rate that they
deserve?
(Mr Shepley) What goes between me and ministers probably
has to remain between me and ministers.
532. You might want to share it with us but,
if you do not, I will not press you on that.
(Mr Shepley) I do not want to say any more on that.
533. Would you not accept that there is no difficulty
in recruiting MPs but in the end it does matter a little bit how
much they get paid?
(Mr Shepley) I do not think I would like to comment
on that.
Christine Butler
534. You might not like the answer.
(Mr Shepley) I am tempted but I will not.
Chairman
535. Let us go back to more technical things.
This case tracking system so that you can actually work out where
the case is at any one point, is that working?
(Mr Shepley) It is not a public system at the moment.
We have an internal case tracking system which works and we have
plans to turn that into a public system. We think that will take
something like two years to do.
536. What about allowing electronic communications
with your offices? Should people be able to put evidence in electronically,
proofs of evidence? Would that not speed the whole process up?
(Mr Shepley) I am sure that is coming too within the
next couple of years. There are some technical difficulties particularly
about the transmission of very large plans, photographs and large
documents, which have to be solved but I think that will come.
537. While we are on salaries, I see here that
I should have asked you about the Senior Salary Review Body. Would
that not be a good idea that would take the heat out of it, it
would not need your views to ministers and the union's views to
ministers, it would have a bit of independence to it.
(Mr Shepley) That was something that we were attracted
by in the Planning Inspectorate but it was something that was
made clear to us was not acceptable in the circumstances I have
already described.
538. The number of women and the number of Inspectors
from ethnic minority groups, what is the present position?
(Mr Shepley) I am not sure that I can remember the
exact figures. I think they are in the second lot of evidence
that we submitted to you. I think the proportion of women is 14
per cent probably but I would have to check. It is certainly of
that order, Chairman. The figure for ethnic minority Inspectors,
well, there is one and I am not proud of that.
539. What are you doing about it then?
(Mr Shepley) We have been trying to do something about
it for some time. We have been talking to the professional institutes,
for example, about what we can do to attract more women and ethnic
minority recruits. As you may have heard from them, certainly
in their evidence, the biggest single problem we have is that
the group of people from whom we are recruiting has a serious
under-representation of women and ethnic minorities too. We are
starting to be more proactive, particularly in relation to women,
in going out to the outside world and stressing the advantages
to women of the Planning Inspectorate and the way we operate pretty
family friendly policies and people can work part-time and there
are various arrangements that suit not just women but some men
too, all sectors of the community. I am hopeful we will be able
to increase that. We will not get to a 50/50 Planning Inspectorate
for some time simply because the people we are recruiting from
are not of that nature.
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