Examination of Witnesses (Questions 400
- 407)
TUESDAY 6 JUNE 2000
MR JOHN
MORTIMER AND
MS JANE
TOPLISS
400. So obviously there is a trend, especially
with commercial enterprises. This is where the CBI and the industries
come in. They all make claims for themselves, and we see it in
all the annual reports. You can hardly recognise the industry
beneath all the flowers and the hedgehogs. The public will think
they are all nice guys, but in actual fact are we seeing an improvement?
Where is the meat really? What are you suggesting? How can Government
engage with all the partners, including yourselves, in making
the whole thing simpler so that you take the responsibility seriously
and hopefully in those indices we see more species, we see a richer
habitat and we see biodiversity flourish?
(Mr Mortimer) I think that there is a role for the
Government in ensuring that the data about the achievements that
there are, or the failures that there are, is being recorded and
collected so that, overall, we can monitor our progress in this
area. I suspect there is greater work that can be done in that
area. I do not think that the answer, however, is to submerge
this issue in bureaucracy, because although bureaucracy is a pejorative
term—and I happen to believe that some bureaucracy is necessary
in almost everything, because it is about being organised—we
do not want to submerge the issue under piles of paper, what we
want is practical action that is improving things. I do not think
you should underestimate the power of competition between operators
to actually embrace these things, because I know for a fact that
within my sector the issue of environmental reporting is now a
competitive issue. The issue of who is doing most for the environment
is a competitive issue.
Chairman
401. It is for big companies, but there are
a whole group of small operators, are there not, for whom it is
still not a competitive issue?
(Mr Mortimer) I agree.
Mrs Dunwoody
402. Is it called, "I have more otters
than you have"?
(Mr Mortimer) I would not want to go back to aggregates
tax, but we were enthusiastic about making sure that everyone
in industry achieved these standards. To a certain extent, yes,
this is the trickle-down effect, but at the moment we are making
good progress and so I would not be over concerned.
Christine Butler
403. Are physical incentives a possibility?
(Mr Mortimer) I believe there is a place for incentive.
Some projects are expensive, some things can be achieved with
very little cost indeed, but some things require substantial investment.
I think we heard it from the water people as well, recognition
of that, either, in their case, in terms of their ability to charge
and to recover costs, or through grants for certain things, would
be valuable. I think in particular we have found that creating
biodiversity is actually quite easy. I say that, it has taken
years of expertise and learning to get to the point that we can
fairly easily fully predict what will happen when we reconstruct
something, but maintaining diversity is a whole different issue.
We find, and if I refer back to the 700 hectare reed bed, creating
a 770 hectare reed bed—.
Mrs Dunwoody
404. I am sorry to be boring, but how big is
that in acres?
(Mr Mortimer) About 2,500.
Mrs Dunwoody: Thank you. I know what we are
talking about now.
Chairman
405. I prefer to have it in football pitches.
(Mr Mortimer) Creating that is one thing, maintaining
it in perpetuity is another. The best way for this to happen is
in partnership with organisations and this project is being developed
in partnership with the RSPB who will take on the running of that,
but they have had to be provided with the mechanism for funding
that.
406. Is the danger not that we are then playing
God in deciding what should be there, rather than letting natural
evolution take place and the reed bed gradually silts up and becomes
something else?
(Mr Mortimer) In the very long term parts of the reed
bed will silt up, that is without doubt. Within the management
plan I do not think it would be the intention to maintain every
bit of reed bed as reed bed forever. The fact is that reed beds
move. That means, if you like, that that site would be finite,
because eventually it would not be a reed bed, it will silt up
and vegetation will fill it in. So it is only a temporary, albeit
quite a long lived project. We are talking hundreds of years that
this site can provide a contribution to biodiversity. Whether
we should just allow nature to take its course is an interesting
question, and experience within my industry shows that nature
does a very good job indeed. A lot of the most important wildlife
sites, in fact 700 of the SSSIs in England, are or were mineral
sites or are under the management of mineral companies. That is
around about 15 to 20 per cent of all SSSIs somehow have minerals
intertwined with them. Old quarries revert and they become very
important habitat for wildlife and wild flora in particular.
407. On that note I thank you very much for
your help.
(Mr Mortimer) Thank you very much indeed, Chairman,
ladies and gentlemen.
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