Examination of witnesses (Questions 180
- 189)
TUESDAY 9 MAY 2000
MR JOHN
BALLARD, MR
HENRY DERWENT,
MR MICHAEL
GAHAGAN and MR
MARK LAMBIRTH
180. How does a housing association do its restructuring
to perhaps reduce by 20 per cent its rent level?
(Mr Gahagan) First of all, there will have to be a
system adopted as a result of consultation on the Green Paper
and Ministers will then decide which national system, if any,
to put in place and then the formula will be worked out for each
individual RSL and it will be made clear how it is applied and
the RSLs will be expected to adjust their rent over ten years
so they can work out over ten years how to bring them in line.
If they argue that is quite impossible, for example given their
financial commitments or their programming commitments, then Ministers
have said they are prepared to make exceptions in those cases.
181. Make exceptions by funding them extra money
or make exceptions that in ten years' time we will not have solved
this problem of the great disparity in rent levels?
(Mr Gahagan) That has yet to be decided and I think
it will be mainly exceptions allowing them to continue to raise
their rents.
182. Rough sleepers: how many were there in
April 1999?
(Mr Gahagan) I have not got April; I have got June
1999.
183. Let us have June and December. Can you
manage that?
(Mr Gahagan) I can manage that for London but not
for the country and I will explain why and I will give you the
1999 figures for comparative purposes. In England there were 1,850
in June 1998 and 1,633 in June 1999 and there will be a count
over the next few weeks to give this year's equivalent for England.
For London it was 620 in June 1998. It had gone up very slightly
in June 1990 to 635. In January this year there was a special
count in London which was not replicated elsewhere where it had
come down to just over 400.
184. Is that a reflection of the weather or
changing circumstances?
(Mr Gahagan) I think it is both but I do not think
one can discount an element of the weather. That is why we have
to look at the June to June comparison.
185. So we are not getting a grip of this situation,
are we?
(Mr Gahagan) It is improving. From June 1998 to June
1999 it had come down and the first milestone the Rough Sleepers
Unit was given was to reduce the figure by one tenth by June 1999[4]
and that has been achieved. Remember the Rough Sleepers Unit has
only been in place for a year but the counts this year will show
whether it is really coming down.
186. The target is zero by 2002.
(Mr Gahagan) The target is to reduce it by two-thirds
by 2002.
187. Any chance of that being achieved?
(Mr Gahagan) The Rough Sleepers Unit is confident
they will achieve that.
Mr Olner
188. Can I ask how robust the counting is. Presumably,
you can reduce your target by not counting a few?
(Mr Gahagan) First of all, I hope we would be a bit
more honourable than that.
189. We would expect it.
(Mr Gahagan) It sounds pathetic but we do need to
stand by the figures that we publish and there are a lot of groups
obviously who watch the way the count is done and there are very
clear guidelines given to make sure that the counting is done
properly across the country because, as I say, it is done in London
and all the other cities where there is a major rough sleeper
problem.
Chairman: On that note can I thank you very
much for your evidence.
4 Witness correction: December 1999. Back
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