Examination of witnesses (Questions 480
- 499)
WEDNESDAY 14 JUNE 2000
SIR RICHARD
MOTTRAM, MR
JOHN BALLARD,
MR TOM
ADAMS and MR
ALAN EVANS
480. Process targets are a good example. You
said "we will get rid of process targets".
(Sir Richard Mottram) I did not say that.
481. You said you are reducing the number of
process targets and the reason you gave for reducing the number
of process targets was because people out there do not understand
them. I would say that targets themselves are jolly good things
even if they are totally and utterly mystifiable to the people
out there because the targets are designed to make the Government
behave better.
(Sir Richard Mottram) I agree. All I am saying to
you is in an ideal world if you had such a target you would frame
it so that people could understand it, not least because the point
you are raising is about accountability and, I agree with you,
this machinery is about holding Government and Government departments
to account. You hold them to account by using language and concepts
that people generally can understand, that is all I mean.
482. Let us hold the Department of the Environment
to account then.
(Sir Richard Mottram) Department of the Environment,
Transport and the Regions.
Mr Gray: It was called the Department of the
Environment when I worked there.
Mrs Dunwoody: You are showing your age, James.
Mr Gray
483. Showing my age. On the electronic age,
let us talk about electronic communication with your customers.
(Sir Richard Mottram) Yes.
484. Why is it that when the Government produced
a wonderful paper called Modernising Government, using
that completely meaningless expression "modernising"
but we know what they mean by it, they said "we want targets
of 50 per cent of transactions electronically by 2005 and we want
100 per cent by 2008". That is what the Government said back
in 1997.
(Sir Richard Mottram) Yes.
485. But in your PSA for the DETR you have only
got 25 per cent by 2002.
(Sir Richard Mottram) Yes.
486. Why is that?
(Sir Richard Mottram) John can probably help me here.
I think because our PSA was agreed before the Modernising Government
White Paper was published. Since the Modernising Government
White Paper was published we have agreed that we will revise our
target again to make it more demanding again.
487. To what?
(Sir Richard Mottram) I think it is 50 per cent of
transactions capable of being performed electronically by 2002.
488. By 2002? Great. That is three years better
than the Government's target.
(Sir Richard Mottram) Yes.
489. That is good news. That is interesting
news that the DETR is going to do better than the Government's
own target.
(Sir Richard Mottram) If I can be clear about this.
This is a target about being capable of being performed electronically,
this is not a target that says every one of these transactions
has to be performed in a particular way. That is obviously for
social inclusion reasons.
Chairman
490. When we were looking at that web page there
were some things on there that a genius could do but most average
citizens could not do.
(Sir Richard Mottram) We mean capable of being performed
electronically on the basis an average citizen can do it.
491. So it is something that should be relatively
easy?
(Sir Richard Mottram) Absolutely.
492. So the ones that are already on that web
page, you think they are all pretty easy to do?
(Sir Richard Mottram) There are not that many transactions
you can perform using our website at the moment. There is an issue
about whether we cannot do better on that.
493. In order to meet this target are you going
to have to do better?
(Sir Richard Mottram) Yes. We can give you some of
the details. We have agreed with the centre, to give you a very
quick answer, all of the different transactions we as a Department
do and we have a plan to make them capable of being performed
electronically between now and 2005 and rolling all of that out.
The biggest constraint for us in doing this is a constraint that
is actually about data protection and identity, that is the biggest
issue we have. It is not really a technical issue, it is much
more an issue about data protection and an issue about identity.
So, for example, issuing driving licences electronically is quite
a complicated thing because there are issues about identity.
Mr Gray
494. On the other hand, is it possible to say
which of your agencies are capable of doing this thing, which
DETR agencies?
(Sir Richard Mottram) Electronically includes by telephone
and a number of the agencies are already developing transactions
you can perform by going into call centres.
495. Which ones?
(Sir Richard Mottram) Theory tests and so on and so
forth. We can give you a list.
496. If you have just set yourself a target
that is more demanding than Government has asked for, 50 per cent
by 2002, which of your agencies do you think are going to help
you to achieve that?
(Sir Richard Mottram) All of them. We will give you
a list if you would like. We have a plan for which of these transactions
we will be able to do by then.
497. Including DVLA?
(Sir Richard Mottram) Yes. For example, you can already
license your vehicle electronically if you are a dealer between
your dealership and Swansea, first licence.
Mrs Dunwoody
498. The hazard will be with the bulk of ordinary
people wanting to get a licence because a licence is not only
a legal document but enables you to do other things as well.
(Sir Richard Mottram) Precisely.
499. It is a form of identification.
(Sir Richard Mottram) That is the most difficult issue
we face, which is not only in our control.
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