Examination of Witnesses (Questions 134
- 139)
TUESDAY 31 OCTOBER 2000
MR JOHN
MCCALL
AND MR
DINO ADRIANO
Chairman
134. Can I welcome you to this session. My apologies,
we are running a little bit late. Can I ask you to identify yourselves
for the record.
(Mr McCall) I am John McCall. I am a
resident of Capel, a small village in Surrey. I am a retired lawyer
but take an interest in environmental matters. Aviation and waste
seem to be two dominating features in our area.
(Mr Adriano) Dino Adriano. I am also a resident in
Capel. I was formerly involved in the food industry for 36 years.
Mrs Ellman
135. Could you tell us something about why your
group was formed?
(Mr McCall) In 1995 a speculative very large proposal
for a waste to energy incinerator was proposed in Redhill. It
was quite apparent to me then, having watched proposals for expansion
of Gatwick Airport and additional runways, that the community
needed to be pretty well advised about what the implications are.
As you well know, waste is a pretty complex subject, the regime,
the techniques. We locally, having been quite well organised to
consider aviation issues, certainly thought it would be good to
form a village group, and from there it has grown.
136. How much consultation was there with local
people about the proposal?
(Mr McCall) The proposal which we have in Surrey now
was preceded by a local waste plan which was considered for a
very long period and was fairly savagely dealt with by the inspector
because it was put forward, as a second effort, having been a
plan led system, which one would have expected to see for something
such as waste, on a criteria only basis. So in effect the community
in Surrey, along with those who set policy, had no opportunity
to consider issues which might lead one to best sites, best practices.
There was really a very poor attempt at consultation. Whilst the
waste plan developed we had the formation of this very long contract
which Surrey County Council entered into, which I regard as a
very rigid contract. They did not take the advice of this Committee
two years ago to enter into a flexible contract. They have effectively
locked themselves into waste to energy on a mass burn basis for
25 years and have asked to have handed over the plants to the
County Council for future use when I would have expected these
plants to be long past their sell-by date and hopefully technology
would have advanced.
137. How does your group think waste should
be dealt with? Presumably it cannot all be reused, recycled or
landfilled, what should happen to it?
(Mr Adriano) I think we go back to the waste hierarchy
which we believe is very well set out by the Government in its
Waste Strategy 2000, but there seems to us to be an enormous gap
between intent and what we see on the ground. Specifically, a
lot of work needs to be done on waste minimisation which gets
very little practical support in the Government's policy document.
Recycling, frankly, which has started in some areas to really
make some progress, needs a significant step up so that it becomes
visible, accessible and practical for residents to take part.
We have seen some evidence of this but nowhere near enough.
Christine Butler
138. What changes would you like to see in Waste
2000 so that the strategy could fulfil its objectives better?
(Mr Adriano) Firstly, I think it is critical that
Government should reconsider the setting of targets for waste
reduction. There is no explicit target stated. There are targets
for recycling and recovery, as we have heard, and also for reductions
in landfill, but there is no target set for waste reduction. There
is comment in the document that the largest companies will be
set targets but, of course, we are a very diverse society and
economy and it is no good just concentrating on the very largest,
although that is a start. What we need is clear national targets
on waste reduction and I believe a great deal could be done in
that respect. I also believe that the Government needs to play
a much stronger role in enabling more effective recycling to take
place. I can give one example which concerns the division that
exists in most local authorities as between the waste disposal
authority and the waste collection authority. It is quite clear
that there are considerable barriers to progress unless these
differences in responsibility are clarified. Perhaps, as I think
one of the witnesses later on this morning suggests, they should
be given some statutory footing.
139. Thank you. What did you read into the fact
that the final version of the Government's Waste Strategy seemed
to have changed direction fairly radically from its draft?
(Mr Adriano) I think the political realities of opening
or building a large number of incinerators has become a reality
that is now recognised. I think it has been a difficult shift.
I also think that the Government when they achieved a moratorium
on the reduction in landfill back in 1998, when at the time they
heralded it as a great achievement, that is something that we
should all take more note of. That moratorium basically extended
the reduction of waste to landfill over a longer period of time
to give this country and its citizens the opportunity to get to
grips with effective recycling which others have demonstrated
is possible. I think those two elements are the main drivers of
the change.
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