Examination of Witnesses (Questions 240
- 250)
TUESDAY 7 NOVEMBER 2000
DR JANE
GILBERT AND
MR DAVID
MIDDLEMAS
Mrs Ellman
240. What are the problems in getting planning
permission for composting facilities?
(Dr Gilbert) I think there are a number of difficulties;
first and foremost, a lack of knowledge about the composting process
by planning officers, and also the statutory consultees as well.
There are still difficulties regarding what the requirements are,
potentially, by the Environment Agency if the site is to be licensed,
which runs hand in hand with the requirements for planning permission.
Chairman
241. It does smell, does it not, as well?
(Dr Gilbert) There are issues about emissions to the
environment, and, for example, the potential for odours, and we
need to ensure protection for ground-water, for example, and so
forth, through infrastructure. And, unfortunately, composting
is no different from any other waste management facility when
it comes to the general public, and I think there are failings
in our planning system at the moment. And the concern the Association
has is that the Government have set statutory performance standards
for 2003, but we are not going to have anywhere near enough infrastructure
in place by then to be able to deal with the projected quantities
of organic waste that will need to be composted.
Mrs Ellman
242. How do you think the problem should be
resolved?
(Dr Gilbert) I think the regional technical advisory
bodies, the RTABs, need to take a greater role. I think we need
a more co-ordinated approach on a regional basis towards the provision
of waste management facilities; and, once again, a better networking
between waste managers, planning authorities, waste disposal authorities,
and so forth. It appears that the structure is not appropriate
at the moment, or it is not going to deliver what we actually
need, especially to meet the requirement of the Article 5 targets
in the Landfill Directive.
243. What about public perception?
(Dr Gilbert) Very negative. Once again, there is a
lot of work to do. We need to inform the public, but the waste
management industry and the composting industry also need to be
honest as well about the way in which the sites are operated.
I think that we need a lot of work on both sides, but we need
to embrace the public as well, and it appears that the planning
system at the moment does not really embrace the public's—it
does not get the general public on board at a very early stage.
244. Whose responsibility is it to do that?
(Dr Gilbert) I think we need to see Government working
a lot more closely with the RTABs, with the planning authorities
and with the waste disposal authorities, in ensuring that they
can effectively make very difficult decisions.
Mr Cummings
245. On the public perception; if someone were
to say to me tomorrow, "Fair enough, John, we'll take on
board what you've said," what sort of tonnages would you
be looking at in five years' time?
(Dr Gilbert) Very difficult to quantify. A rough estimation
by 2003, just a very preliminary estimation, is that in England
and Wales we need to see somewhere in the region of about two
million tonnes per annum composted, in the region, a very broadbrush
estimation. But preliminary results from the Association's survey
that we are carrying out this year, of waste composted last year,
indicated, and this is still subject to confirmation, that in
England and Wales in 1999 only about 580,000 tonnes of material,
municipal waste, was composted in England and Wales. So we are
going to need to see virtually a four-fold increase by 2003.
Mrs Ellman
246. How should waste management licensing regulations
be changed to assist selling the products?
(Mr Middlemas) If I could comment, initially. As I
alluded to earlier, there is an existing exemption from waste
management licensing for community composting sites that, effectively,
has significantly hampered the development of community composting
in the UK. The consultation on the revised exemption we were told
would be published in November 1999; the consultation is still
to be published. I would urge the Committee to recommend strongly
to the Department, DETR, to publish the consultation with immediate
effect. To the extent where, to answer your question, CCN has
not had the opportunity to really strongly begin to discuss what
the precise conditions of the exemption should be, we have been
spending six years now trying to get to this stage, and we are
very much looking forward to being able to engage in a proper
debate as to what the new exemptions should be.
247. What do you think they should be?
(Mr Middlemas) I will reiterate the point I made earlier,
that for so long we have been pressing for a bureaucratic process
to be undertaken, that we are looking forward actually to being
able to start talking about what should be in the exemption itself.
Chairman
248. Wait a minute. What you are saying is that
you are critical of the Department for failing to come up with
their proposals, but you have not got, off the top of your head,
your counter-proposals. Perhaps you could let us have a note on
that. But if it is difficult for you to produce it then it is
a slight excuse for the Department taking their time, is it not?
(Mr Middlemas) I could certainly do that. In fact,
in the summer of 1999, CCN worked with the Environment Agency
to consult on our views on the new exemption. I believe that the
new exemption will be based on the environmental impact of the
composting site itself, rather than, at the moment what it is,
on the movement of organic waste and the movement of compost.
And, certainly, to answer the question, that is the route that
CCN would wish to go down. If I could just come back to the question
on planning, there is little evidence within the community sector
of community composting having problems with planning; community
composting is typically a good neighbour, with a good public perception,
providing a service to the local community.
Mrs Ellman
249. Is the Environment Agency licensing and
regulating composting facilities effectively?
(Mr Middlemas) With regard to the existing exemption,
a symptom of the problems is that there are a number of inconsistencies
across the UK as to the interpretation of the existing regulations.
So one of the reasons why it is essential that the revised consultation
takes place as soon as possible is not just to enable community
composting groups to be able to get clear advice, but also for
Environment Agency officers to be able to enforce and implement
on a consistent basis.
250. What role do you see for on-farm composting
and other forms of off-farm centralised composting?
(Dr Gilbert) Could I go back to comment on the Environment
Agency. At the moment, the Environment Agency only has a statutory
duty to deal with waste with regard to the three evils, one to
human health, one to the environment, or serious detriment to
the amenities of the locality. You asked about marketing; they
do not have a role to ensure that, and once they have defined
the material as a product and it ceases to be a waste that is
out of their jurisdiction. And I think this is something where
the Environment Agency could play a very key role in actually
helping the composting sector, with regard to this specific issue.
The Environment Agency, as well, has suffered, and there have
been extreme problems over the last few years with an inconsistent
approach, primarily because the licensing officers and the enforcement
officers do not have a fundamental understanding of the composting
process. This is something we have been working on with the Agency,
and they are producing technical guidance notes to this effect.
But I just express concern that there does not appear to be any
funding at the moment to ensure that there is a composting expert
within the Agency, so that other Agency officers can come to that
person for advice, or to ensure that when the guidance notes are
produced they are kept up to date, given the significant changes
that we are going to witness over the forthcoming years. So I
think the Environment Agency does have a very key role, but there
should be sufficient resources available to enable it to carry
out that important function.
Chairman: On that note, can I thank you very
much for your evidence.
|
