Examination of witnesses (Questions 587
- 599)
TUESDAY 21 NOVEMBER 2000
DR JANET
ASHERSON and MS
JULIANA GOLDENBERG
Chairman
587. Good morning, can I welcome you to the
fifth session of the Committee into the Delivery of Sustainable
Waste Management. Could you introduce yourselves for the record,
please?
(Dr Asherson) Thank you very much. I am Dr Janet Asherson,
the Head of Environmental Affairs from the Confederation of British
Industry. I would like to introduce Juliana Goldenberg, a legal
adviser to Du Pont, and she will be able to assist with some of
the practical aspects of how businesses see this challenge.
588. Thank you very much. Do you want to make
a statement or are you happy to go straight to questions?
(Dr Asherson) I am happy to take questions.
Mr Blunt
589. How realistic is the Government's target
of reducing the amount of industrial and commercial waste sent
to landfill to 85 per cent of the 1998 levels by 2005?
(Dr Asherson) Perhaps your understanding, of course,
of the representation of the CBI is that we have a broad basis
of business, both producers and waste managers, some near to the
consumers, some not so close to the consumers. It is the general
overall opinion of that piece of business, that average, the 85
per cent target is not achievable in anything less than five years,
and even then it will require considerable motivation. It will
require a lot of people pulling together to make sure that other
avenues are opened up to take things away from the landfill stream.
590. What do you mean? Enlarge that for me.
(Dr Asherson) We believe it is a challenging target,
it is not an easy fix. We do not think it is an easy target, which
is the point of your question. It is going to be a challenge,
but it can be achieved by the date of 2005.
591. There are others that say the target cannot
be described as challenging at all, "It is weak in the extreme
and shows an unwillingness by Government to challenge industry
and commerce to improve its performance".
(Dr Asherson) There are people who can say that because
they represent a particular group that are, perhaps, part of one
area of society and part of our membership. What I am giving you
is the overall general view of an average of CBI members across
the piece, some will find it easy and others will not. On balance
we believe it is a challenging target. It can be met in five years,
but with a lot of goodwill and many changes in the infrastructure
system that we have.
592. Perhaps I can remind you what this Committee
said in its last Report on Sustainable Waste Management, it began
by arguing that in the developed world the current level of resources
was unsustainable and a revolution in resources was the real driving
force for the developed world to take waste minimisation and sustainable
developments seriously. Do you agree with that?
(Dr Asherson) I certainly do.
593. Do you think it is proper that United Kingdom
companies spend 0.1 per cent of their turnover on waste management?
If that is the sum of the total resources devoted to waste management
is the United Kingdom going to achieve the kind of changes in
resources that are actually needed?
(Dr Asherson) United Kingdom businesses try very hard
to deal with waste minimisation as well as waste management. Many
aspects of what other people might call waste are used elsewhere
in the manufacturing chain, so that figure is part of a holistic
system that we have to look at in a much broader context. We in
business across the piece in all elements of British business
recognise the challenge and are there to play the part.
594. Do you understand why the Green Lobby look
at you and justify their response, that the response so far of
the CBI is wholly inadequate?
(Dr Asherson) We work very closely with the Green
Lobby. We are hoping that we can provide some of the challenge
as well. The Green Lobby have a very different representation
and a very different access and locus of interest. I look forward
to working with them to deliver the sustainability that is best
for society, business, the general public and consumers.
595. Has the Green Lobby largely been right
on a number of these issues to drive industry into taking a position
which they initially sought to avoid?
(Dr Asherson) I think there are many industries that
have taken forward-thinking initiatives without the Green Lobby.
The Green Lobby very often represent the views of some parts of
society and we have to get all parts of society to contribute
to this particular challenge.
596. Miss Goldenberg, what is Du Pont doing
to improve your waste management practice?
(Ms Goldenberg) As a corporate policy we have a practice
to try and minimise waste and reuse and recycle as much as we
can. In fact I am here to speak to you today about the product
waste classification of dycal, about which the members may have
read in the consultation. We endeavour to reuse the co-products
that we produce in the most environmentally beneficial way. Dycal
is one co-product of the production of nylon. There are many co-products,
most of which are used in other processes. Dycal has been burned
on site since the 1950s. We endeavoured to have it classified
as a product to be sold as a fuel, but the Environment Agency
was unable to do that. We believe, although we cannot be sure,
that this is because of the confusion the Environment Agency has
as to the rules and policies they are required to follow.
Chairman
597. Where would you want to have it burned
as a fuel?
(Ms Goldenberg) In cement kilns.
598. If you were living next to a cement kiln
you would be quite happy to have that for a replacement for other
fuels?
(Ms Goldenberg) It actually burns cleaner than pep-coke
and coal, in terms of all emissions and the impurities in it are
bound up within the cement clinker, so they are effectively inert.
599. What happens when this cement clinker corrodes
away over time? Presumably the nasties then spread out on to someone's
footpath or somewhere else where the concrete may have been made.
(Ms Goldenberg) With that particular product the only
impurity is boron. I am not a chemist, so I am not familiar with
how it would react with other things. I do not think that is one
of the particularly harmful impurities.
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