Examination of Witnesses (Questions 100
- 110)
MONDAY 22 MAY 2000
MR P HAIN
MP AND MR
J BEVAN
100. Would the lesson from the UNITA experience
be that we should be working to stop anybody buying any diamonds
from Liberia since that is where all the Sierra Leone diamonds
are going?
(Mr Hain) I think that the key thing is to force all
international diamond traders and companies to be put in the position
where somebody going into a jewellery shop to buy a wedding ring
insists that it must not be a blood diamond, it has to be a clean
diamond. That should apply to Liberia, to Angola, to the whole
of the world. We are having a lot of cooperation from South Africa,
from Namibia and from Botswana in particular because they mine
diamonds legitimately, they are clean diamonds and their diamonds
should not suffer. The consumer, coupled with governments, should
actually now try to ensure that when they go into a jewellery
shop they know whether they are buying a blood diamond or a clean
diamond.
Sir John Stanley
101. Minister, though we appreciate it was before
your time, I am sure you are aware that the two major issues which
came out of this Committee's previous Sierra Leone inquiry were
first the one which has been raised by Sir Peter and Mr Rowlands,
which was the apparent unsatisfactory communication between officials
and Ministers, certainly in the Africa Department.
(Mr Hain) Not on this occasion.
102. No, I am talking about the previous one
in Sierra Leone. The second issue which came out of our previous
inquiry was the one raised by Dr Starkey, which was the issue
of illegal gun running, contrary to an embargo by a British company.
In this particular context, you said, in response to Dr Starkey
that the British Government would come down like a ton of bricks
on any British company breaching the arms embargo in relation
to Sierra Leone. In that context, could you then explain the comments
made, as reported in The Independent on 16 May, by Mr Bruce Bird,
the director of the firm concerned, Foyle Air, based at Luton,
in which he said that the plane which delivered the weapons is
now being used to bring Indian UN peacekeepers to Sierra Leone
and that they are also now contracted by the Ministry of Defence
to supply the peacekeeping operation. Can you explain to us how
"coming down like a ton of bricks" on a British company
which has been a party to breaching the embargo, is apparently
handing out additional MOD contracts to it?
(Mr Hain) It is quite simple: I do not accept the
basis for the question. This operation by Foyle in March of 1999,
some time ago, to fly arms from the Ukraine to Burkina Faso, was
the limit of their operation. The arms apparently then subsequently
were ferried on by somebody else to the RUF. What I do think is
important for companies like Air Foyle, because Burkina Faso has
been a very suspect transit point for arms, both now it seems
in the case of Sierra Leone but also for Angola, any British company
which is involved in bringing arms into Africa is that they should
be very, very careful that they satisfy themselves that there
is no onward transmission. After we referred it, this case was
investigated by the United Nations Sanctions Committee and therefore
when Air Foyle came back in totally different circumstances to
assist, it was decided that use would be made of their facility.
103. You have confirmed correctly that Burkina
Faso is an extremely suspect destination. Indeed The Independent
says that that country has no obvious need for Russian weaponry,
its ground forces are equipped by NATO, UN investigators maintain
that the Burkina Faso government was operating on behalf of the
Sierra Leone rebel leader Foday Sankoh. Any British company involved
in the supply of Russian weaponry to Burkina Faso would have been
immediately under suspicion. I should like to ask you three things.
What was the date on which you or your Foreign Secretary were
first informed about this arms shipment by Air Foyle?
(Mr Hain) In March last year. I was not actually in
office in March last year, but I shall certainly find the date
concerned and let the Committee know, if that is of interest.
104. When were your officials informed?
(Mr Hain) I shall let you know the same thing. We
did pursue it and we pursue it rigorously. If we had found anything
other than what I have described, we should have taken the appropriate
action.
105. What was the date of the MOD contract with
Air Foyle to facilitate the peacekeeping operation?
(Mr Hain) I shall also provide the Committee with
that information. This is something recent.
106. Do you feel no discomfort about a British
company running arms out of Russia into a neighbouring country
in Africa which has, in public knowledge, no conceivable need
for Russian weaponry, which you yourself have admitted is suspect
as an end-use destination, where the UN investigators confirm
that these weapons almost certainly ended up in rebel hands? Do
you find it comfortable that the same company is now under contract
to the MOD to assist in the peacekeeping operation?
(Mr Hain) Everybody, not least Foyle, will have learned
their lesson from that event over a year ago. Remember, in the
meantime, in respect admittedly of another country and a similar
problem, the Fowler report, the United Nations Sanction Committee
report under Ambassador Robert Fowler, has reported on arms supplies
from countries of origin like Ukraine, Bulgaria and so on, going
through Burkina Faso, Togo, Ivory Coast, Rwanda and others. We
now know a lot more about the way in which arms are coming from
eastern Europe into Africa. It is important that companies like
Air Foyle learn that lesson. So far as I know, on the information
I have, they have done so.
107. Your department knew all this in relation
to Sandline. It was a similar route.
(Mr Hain) It is nothing to do with Sandline.
108. No; it was a similar route out of the former
Soviet Union into an adjacent state to Sierra Leone.
(Mr Hain) That is why we referred it to the Sanctions
Committee for investigation.
109. Then granted an additional contract from
the MOD to this particular company to carry out supply to the
peacekeeping force.
(Mr Hain) The UN Sanctions Committee did not seek
to prosecute Air Foyle or take action against it and to my knowledge
Air Foyle have not done anything like this since.
Chairman
110. Perhaps you would write to the Committee
and clarify any matters outstanding.
(Mr Hain) I shall clarify the dates but I do not accept
the premise of the question.
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