Examination of Witnesses (Questions 860
- 879)
THURSDAY 20 JANUARY 2000
MR B ECCLESTONE,
AND MR
M MOSLEY
Audrey Wise
860 A very brief point for clarity. All the emphasis
has been on evidence about it encouraging people to start smoking.
What about the constant images relating to tobacco making it harder
for people to give up smoking?
(Mr Mosley) Is there any evidence? I
do not know. It would be interesting if there were.
861 Are you interested in that as well?
(Mr Mosley) Very much so.
862 We have not mentioned it either. I do not
want it to go by default because I think it is a very valid point.
If you were commissioning research or anything, it should be the
twofold side.
(Mr Mosley) We believe there are two
aspects to this if one is serious about wanting people to stop
smoking. There is the question of persuading people who smoke
already to give up and there is the question of persuading people
who do not smoke, not to start. I have always assumed, but this
is anecdotal, that among the people who actually smoke, the overwhelming
majority want to give up; it is just that they find it difficult.
I have never seen it as a problem persuading people who smoke
to wish to give up; the difficulty is then being able to do so.
Perhaps there is a point that if they did not see any advertising
at all, they might find it easier to give up. Perhaps this may
also apply to drugs.
Dr Stoate
863 From what you have said to us, I think you
genuinely seem to be trying to reduce the reliance on tobacco
advertising in the sport. I welcome that. What you said about
offering to help sponsor research would be very welcome indeed.
Therefore I should like you to comment on one of the submissions
we had from the advertisers whom we interviewed before you and
that was the feeling we got that some of them were quite cynically
trying to exploit the rules, push the envelope as far as they
possibly could to get away with it. I will give you some examples.
One quote, "This is to confirm that we (B&H account team)
have asked Noel to come up with some implicit branding options
for the Jordan team Formula 1 cars to the French Grand Prix. The
reason being that all cigarette branding must be removed".
Another one, "We feel if we can legally say the word `Special
F1' then we could utilise the area behind the driver's head
... to attempt to get a little closer to more `overtly' implying
the brand on the car. Do you think we could get this past the
various legal bodies? If Rothmans can get away with `Racing' in
the brand type face, I think we may have a case". Another
one, "We wonder if you could slightly corrupt the Jordan
logo to include a large `ampersand?'", the message being
that would be recognised by people as implicitly a B&H logo.
If the advertisers are trying to do that, what would be your comments,
if you are trying to reduce reliance? What would be your comments
on the advertisers and some of the tobacco companies desperately
trying to find a way round them?
(Mr Ecclestone) Firstly, they could not
use the words "Formula 1" in the way they have proposed.
That is the first thing. They probably do not know that. Eventually
the team would probably tell them that they cannot.
864 What do you think about the principle of
these firms who are desperately trying to find all sorts of bizarre
ways, perhaps not even legal ways, perhaps they would be thrown
out, but they are attempting to find all sorts of ways around
it? What do you feel about that as a principle?
(Mr Ecclestone) I would put them in touch
with our tax lawyers who are constantly doing exactly the same
thing with tax. Legally, but to push the envelope.
865 I just want to know what your views are about
the principle.
(Mr Mosley) It is inevitable.
(Mr Ecclestone) That is the principle: people will
push.
866 Do you think it is acceptable, or do you
think it is something you would like to fight against?
(Mr Ecclestone) We would stop them as
much as we could stop them.
867 So you would do your best to prevent them
doing this type of thing.
(Mr Ecclestone) Absolutely; one hundred
per cent.
(Mr Mosley) Let me give you an example. British American
Racing was raised earlier on, who make tobacco products. They
had this wonderful new idea where they said they were going to
have one car with one sort of branding and a completely different
product on the other. It was going to be Lucky Strike on one and
555 on the other. We were able to bring in a rule to stop that.
We were then challenged. It is the first time there has ever been
an arbitration under our agreement which has been going for 20
years with the teams. We had a massive arbitration which cost
£1 million, we had all the leading silks there and I am happy
to say we won. We said we were not going to proliferate the branding.
You will not have two different brands on the basis that the cars
should look the same, like a team, otherwise we could have had
14 different cigarette brands all going round. We do as we can,
but Mr Ecclestone is absolutely right, if you have laws, which
there are in France, whereas in England it is a voluntary agreement
in France it is a law, as soon as you have a law people will go
as far as they can within the bounds of the law.
868 I accept they will try to do so, but would
your response to that be to do what you can?
(Mr Ecclestone) Absolutely.
(Mr Mosley) Absolutely.
Mr Amess
869 Gentlemen, you are familiar with the Institute
of Public Policy Research report on tobacco sponsorship of Formula
1 racing.
(Mr Mosley) I cannot say it is fresh
in my mind.
(Mr Ecclestone) I am not.
870 Mr Ecclestone, you are not familiar with
this body, so you would not be able to help me as to whether or
not any of your companies funded this report.
(Mr Ecclestone) I am sure we would not
have funded it.
871 You are sure that you would not have funded
the report.
(Mr Ecclestone) Absolutely.
872 Does the FIA own All Sports Management?
(Mr Ecclestone) I do not know All Sports
Management; I have never heard of All Sports Management.
(Mr Mosley) No, FIA does not own commercial companies.
873 So All Sports Management is nothing at all
to do with you.
(Mr Ecclestone) It is nothing to do with
our companies.
874 At the end of this report it says the study
was made possible by generous grant from All Sports Management
for which the Institute of Public Policy Research is grateful,
but this is nothing at all to do with you.
(Mr Ecclestone) Absolutely.
(Mr Mosley) You said this was a tobacco report. This
is the British motor racing industry.
875 Shall I start again?
(Mr Mosley) Yes, because I think you
gave it the wrong name.
876 You were not tuned in to what I was saying.
Shall I start the question again?
(Mr Mosley) Try again.
877 Gentlemen, are you familiar with the Institute
of Public Policy Research report which was produced on tobacco
sponsorship of Formula 1 racing?
(Mr Mosley) There is a report on the
British motor racing industry.
(Mr Ecclestone) Not guilty.
878 Mr Ecclestone is not familiar, you are not
familiar with it.
(Mr Mosley) I am familiar with a report
produced by this body, the Institute of Public Policy Research,
on the British motor racing industry, which is a completely different
thing. I think you have the title of the report wrong. I think
the report you quoted does not exist and that is why none of us
has heard of it. A small problem.
879 No, it is not a problem for me. All Sports
Management is nothing at all to do with Mr Ecclestone.
(Mr Ecclestone) Nothing at all.
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