Examination of Witnesses (Questions 97
- 99)
THURSDAY 15 JUNE 2000
MR HUGH
TAYLOR AND
MR STEVE
BARNETT
Chairman
97. Gentlemen, can I welcome you to the second
part of our session. I think you were probably here for the first
part so you have a rough idea of the climate that we are exploring.
Can I ask you to introduce yourselves for the record?
(Mr Taylor) I am Hugh Taylor. I am the
Director of Human Resources in the National Health Service Executive
within the Department of Health.
(Mr Barnett) Steve Barnett, Hugh Taylor's deputy.
98. Let us carry on from what I thought was
an interesting quote from the last witness, Professor Yates. He
left us in writing his comments but in response to Simon Burns'
blind leading the blind, he said "the ineffective holding
hands with the inequitable". Are you the "ineffective"
in respect of this matter?
(Mr Taylor) I think we would recognise that although
the fact is that the majority of doctors in this country work
hard and long, and that productivity levels are higher in this
country than in all OECD countries but three, there are still
issues about the management of consultants' time and performance
which need resolution. That is why we are in the process of negotiating
changes to the consultants' contract with the BMA at the moment
and why there is a significant debate which Ministers have inspired
in the context of developing a national plan about the issues
which are under discussion in the Committee today.
99. I was interested in one of the pieces of
information that was drawn to the attention of the Committee in
looking at this area. It was an article in the Financial Times
from Nick Timmins on 22 May where he set out "Take your most
highly skilled and talented staff... Give them a job for life,
an index-linked pension, and six weeks paid holiday. Then let
them go and work for the opposition—not just out of hours
but during the normal working week. It sounds crazy. Yet that
is more or less exactly how the NHS consultants' contract works."
You have heard what was said in the earlier session and the comment
from one of the witnesses was that the contracts are vague and
woolly. Nobody seems to know what is going on. Before we started
this session we thought we understood broadly what the picture
was but the picture appears to be very different from what we
anticipated. Why has it taken so long to address some of the problems
that we have been aware of for many years? I last met Professor
Yates nine years ago in the Health Committee when we were looking
at exactly the same issues, the same discussions, the same dialogue
almost word for word was exchanging between us and yet over this
period of time this situation has continued and we are back here
again on a problem that has in a sense faced the NHS since 1948.
Would you agree that it is perhaps the politicians who have not
got a grip on it? You can possibly not answer that.
(Mr Taylor) I think I will decline that.
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