Examination of witnesses (Questions 100
- 109)
TUESDAY 14 MARCH 2000
THE RT
HON CLARE
SHORT, MR
BARRIE IRETON
and MR ROB
HOLDEN
100. What is bothering about it as well is that
it is simply announced as cash, and my bet would be that very,
very little money in fact has been expended, through ECHO, on
the emergency. So not only were we slow in reacting with funds,
it then will only come through when the emergency has passed.
Is that correct?
(Clare Short) That is the problem in the whole international
system. You get people announcing money on television, right through
the international system, that does not get on to the ground,
sometimes, until a year later. They say "What is X country
doing?" They say "Big song".
Chairman
101. Can we jump on, because we will need to
get you to your meeting, Secretary of State. Could you write about
what exactly ECHO did and, also, tell us what the United States
contributed?[4]
I know they were having a conference in Washington at the time
on Africa, but I do not think they have contributed anything,
and they have got Diego Garcia not very far away.
(Clare Short) They have got quite a lot of troops
there now, have they not?
Chairman: I want to move quickly, Mr
Robathan, to regional responses and then to debt.
Mr Robathan
102. We have already covered the question of
helicopters actually within Mozambique, but there have been a
lot of problems with visas there, I understand, for emergency
personnel and civilian personnel.
(Clare Short) That is part of the problem that Barrie
Ireton referred to, of a very bureaucratic system that cannot
even move in an emergency. So there are people coming in to help
with the emergency being held up with visas.
103. The overriding question is, really, if
there is anything that can be done either by Britain or the international
community to assist developing countries respond to crises like
this, and that is a particular example—and another example
is the aircraft that flew into South Africa and was told it could
not stop and had to move on; whether there is anything the international
community can do to foster regional co-ordination prior to the
crisis and, particularly, thinking about water control in the
Cahora Bassa, or wherever it might be. In particular—and
this is a specific instance—what do you think of the regional
response to the emergency? We have heard what you think about
South Africa. Zimbabwe, of course, has a lot of helicopters and
most of them are fighting a rather unpleasant war in the Congo.
Is there anything else that could have been done regionally?
(Clare Short) I think the first part of your question
I fully take, and I have already answered that. We need to strengthen
the international system, its regional capacity and in-country,
especially in countries subject to these disasters. We have been
working on it, it needs a push and it needs more urgency. On the
general water in the region, we have this conference coming up
in The Hague very shortly about water and sanitation for people
that are lacking either. We need better management of water both
to deliver it to people but also for its use for agricultural
and to prevent wars, and so on. We need to think much, much more
strategically about water and the interface with the environment,
and we do hope to push that forward. In terms of Zimbabwe, you
are right, they were affected by the crisis and they have their
own flooding. I do not know how many helicopters they have but
they are engaged elsewhere, and they have got an awful lot of
problems themselves.
Chairman: I think we will have to leave
it there, Secretary of State, if you are to keep your appointment.
Mr Grant: Clare, you wanted suggestions,
not only negative criticisms. Can I suggest that you develop a
system where you divide up the world into spheres of influence
and have individual countries responsible if there is a disaster
in that area? Those countries can then liaise with the United
Nations as well as other countries in order to get the effort
sorted out. If it is left to the United Nations I doubt very much
whether we will be here in five years' time.
Chairman
104. Not exactly a short question.
(Clare Short) I understand the frustration that goes
into the system, but the UN is the only UN we have got and it
is a completely precious instrument. It is the only thing that
can do, with real moral authority and respected by the governments
concerned, this co-ordinating job, and we have to strengthen the
capacity of the governments that are subject to these disasters
to cope themselves. So I understand, you are almost saying that
because all that does not work why do we not get different donors
to take responsibility. Mozambique, for example, has a very proud
Government—quite right too—and early on very much
wanted to be in control of events, and then got a little bit outpaced
by the scale of the emergency. So one has to be respectful—and
you are the last person I have to tell this to. So the real test
is to get the UN working, get regional systems and get governments
more prepared to cope with disasters.
105. Secretary of State, I was going to ask
you about the debt question but I think, if I may, I will simply
write to you and ask if you would write a note.
(Clare Short) I would be happy to provide you with
a full note.[5]
This is very important for the reconstruction phase, but not of
course for this phase. As a matter of fact, at the moment Mozambique
has quite a lot of reserves and we need to make sure they are
properly deployed. Barrie Ireton is working on this in the reconstruction
phase. So debt really matters to the development of Mozambique
but not to getting people off trees and then getting them fed
and preventing the spread of disease.
106. Would Mr Ireton include the financial perspective
that you describe in dealing with the debt issue? We would be
very grateful.
(Clare Short) Insofar as we can, because they are
not our reserves, but we will tell you all we know about them.
107. What the financial situation is, because
there is, of course, total debt forgiveness in Mozambique.
(Clare Short) You know the UK has done that and Gordon
Brown has been working to get everyone to have a moratorium, which
happened in the case of Central America. So as well as the debt
relief coming there should be a moratorium about any payments
while that is sorted out, as the UK has done. Gordon is working
hard to try to get agreement on that.
(Mr Ireton) There is a meeting at the Paris Club on
Wednesday and Thursday of this week, in which we will be proposing
that everybody agrees a moratorium on the bilateral issue there.
108. I know there are other pressing duties,
but if you could get us a letter by the end of the week.[6]
(Clare Short) We will indeed. It is here,
we can get it to you.
109. Thank you very much for coming, Secretary
of State. You have clarified a whole raft of questions for us
and enabled us, and I think the public in general, to see that
you have been working extremely hard and effectively to try and
rescue people from the desperate situation they are in in Mozambique.
Thank you, all three of you, for coming this morning and spending
your time telling us what you are doing.
(Clare Short) Thanks a lot.
4 See Evidence Ibid. Back
5
See Evidence pp. 21-2. Back
6
See Evidence pp. 21-2. Back
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