Examination of witnesses (Questions 183
- 199)
THURSDAY 23 MARCH 2000
ROSS MOUNTAIN,
KATARINATOLL-VELASQUEZ
and GILBERT GREENALL
Chairman
183. Can I first of all welcome you very warmly
to our Committee and thank all three of you for coming this morning
to tell us exactly what happened in Mozambique, particularly with
the OCHA team. Might I explain that we are a little depleted in
numbers because of illness amongst the Committee members and also
because we changed the date, of course, in order to make certain
we could meet you, Mr Mountain, which we thought was very important.
Would you like to introduce your team so we can get it on the
record?
(Ross Mountain) I would be delighted and I would like
to say a few opening remarks, if I may.
184. Please do.
(Ross Mountain) First of all, if I might introduce
my two colleagues, Katarina Toll-Velasquez, who is an OCHA staff
member in Geneva and was the leader of the first UNDAC team to
Mozambique, and Gilbert Greenall, who is a UK national and works
with us on a very frequent basis in the UNDAC context. I have
had the pleasure of working with him previously in East Timor
amongst other places. He works for us as a UN staff member in
that context but has a contribution through DFID. He was both
on the first team and was the leader of the second team. If I
may say so, Sir, I very much appreciate this invitation and for
you rearranging your schedule to permit me to be here. As I think
you are aware, as international civil servants we are not allowed
to be seen as being accountable to an individual member state
but of course I was delighted to respond to this invitation. We
certainly look forward to this kind of interaction on important
issues and Mozambique is certainly one of those.
185. Thank you very much.
(Ross Mountain) Can I perhaps give a little bit of
background and set the context of what has gone on and what is
going on in Mozambique? First, perhaps to state what may be for
all of you a little obvious, but Mozambique is very much a proud,
sovereign state, it is a very large country, the shore line is
in excess of 2,600 kilometres long. It is also, unfortunately,
a very poor country where some 70 per cent of its population is
below the poverty line. It is a country which has in Africa a
very enviable record in terms of the economic progress it has
achieved, particularly since the conclusion of the civil war a
few years ago. It has held recent elections. It is a very viable,
proud, sovereign state, as I mentioned. Flooding is not uncommon
in Mozambique but nor alas is drought, the other side of the coin.
Flooding on the scale we are talking about here is very uncommon,
this is unprecedented in living memory in excess of 50 years.
In essence, there have been three phases of floods. The first
in fact happened in January when it rained heavily in Maputo Province
and even going there now to Maputo, as I believe some members
of your Committee did, you will have seen the canyons which were
left as a consequence of those intense rains over a weekend, and
there are still several thousand people displaced as a result
of that. That is one discrete phase. The second was the rains
which fell from 4th to 7th February, which fell in Mozambique,
and which led to the response of an UNDAC team, the response of
the international community, working with the Government of Mozambique,
and an appeal was launched on 23rd February, and the departure
of the UNDAC team on the 24th, and I am very happy to come back
and talk about the circumstances around that. What we are really
dealing with now is another event. It is an event which happened
over the weekend of the 27th and the 28th which, I repeat, produced
the worst floods in living memory. This was not brought about
by rain that fell in Mozambique. Out of the clear blue skies of
Mozambique the floods came from the neighbouring countries. It
came at a time when everybody in the country was in fact scanning
weather forecasts, looking to neighbouring countries. It was when
such rainfall as was predicted was expected to be where the rivers
had been falling, which had been falling for over ten days by
that stage. No one, but no one, either had the local capacity
to deal with it or indeed expected it at that time. Clearly there
are lessons to be learnt out of this but I think one of the lessons
is the unpredictability of such things, and I would be very pleased
to come back on this issue later on. The response to Mozambique's
plight, particularly after the floods on the 27th and 28th, has
been extraordinary. It is important perhaps to remember that the
first response of course throughout all this process was from
Mozambique itself—the population of the country and the
Government—and then, of course, the support from the international
community, of course including the UN but not only the UN, and
the response has been extraordinary regionally as well, if I may
say so. In Southern Africa the neighbouring countries, many of
whom were themselves hit by bad floods—South Africa, Zimbabwe,
Botswana—provided material support as indeed did Zambia,
Mauritius, Swaziland and so on. In addition to recognising the
particular plight of Mozambique, I am sure all of you will be
aware of the meeting of the heads of state and governments which
took place in Maputo just over a week ago now, called at two days'
notice, which brought together nine heads of state and governments
where the countries recognised the particular plight of Mozambique
and sought debt relief for that country. They also, of course,
sought additional support from the international community and,
perhaps something you may want to return to later, looked towards
better regional co-operation in dealing with disasters such as
this. But, again, the capacity of Mozambique, I would suggest
the capacity of any country, to deal with floods of the magnitude
which occurred at that time, was surpassed. We have seen in Europe
over the Christmas and New Year period the French Government receiving
assistance for the floods they had to deal with and the rain storms
which had struck around the New Year which were very heavy. The
response also, of course, included an excellent response from
Europe, from the UK in particular, and I do want to pay particular
tribute to the United Kingdom, to DFID, for the response they
delivered, the rapidity of the response and the scope of the response.
We have enjoyed the closest collaboration with DFID in a range
of emergencies, have this on an on-going basis and find them to
be an excellent, rapid partner, and Mozambique was no exception
to this rule. I know there have been discussions about some aspects
of this and I am more than happy to return to it. I have enjoyed
that kind of collaboration in East Timor and in Turkey, where
the focus was on how to get the necessary people as well as the
resources and what they can buy in places as soon as possible.
Another aspect of the response which I think is worth underlining
is not only the public sympathy and the solidarity with Mozambique
that has grown out of the struggle that country has had to regain
stability, but I think a lot of credit should also go to the media
for highlighting the plight of the country. Yes, it is true on
occasions not all the facts were presented as they were, but this
occurs, it certainly occurs in the kind of complexity and indeed
almost inevitable difficulty that occurs when there is such a
massive response, but the media has been extremely useful in highlighting
the importance of this disaster in terms of Mozambique and the
importance of international support. Perhaps a few words, if I
may, on the co-ordination mechanism. I want to emphasise the Government
of Mozambique is in charge of the co-ordination of the response
to that disaster. The Prime Minister heads a Co-ordinating Committee
for Disaster Management and there is a Government Institute for
Disaster Management which has been established to respond to such
disasters. The way the structure worked was that we, as the United
Nations, came in to support the United Nations' country team which
was there under the resident co-ordinator and to support the government
mechanism, the INGC, and the various sectoral groups which were
formed. Under the umbrella of the Institute a number of sectoral
groups were established with leadership from line ministries—health,
food and so on—supported by appropriate UN agencies and
involving all actors, including non-governmental organisations
who of course are so essential in these kinds of operations. There
was a daily co-ordination meeting. Initially, in the first phase,
these were organised and managed by the UNDAC teams, the UN teams.
Shortly after I arrived in the country we were able to see the
Government taking full leadership of these meetings which are
now regularly chaired by the Minister of Foreign Affairs and which
daily look at the interaction of the needs in the different sectors
and different parts of the country. We did also early on put in
support not only in Maputo but in Beira, to ensure that the Save
and the Buzi River problems could also be dealt with from there.
Very briefly, but I think this is important in terms of seeing
how this operation worked, I repeat, our role was to get behind
the Government and support them where they lacked capacity. The
logistics unit was established. The World Food Programme was given
the responsibility of organising both the air logistics and the
water logistics and to assist with the road aspects, and that
unit was also placed in the same building and under the auspices
of the INGC. As you will be aware, there were over half a dozen
countries, including prominently the UK, which offered air assets
but it was vital that they be co-ordinated and directed to the
places where they could do the most help and a joint air operation
cell as part of the civil military operation centre was set up,
and again we encouraged that to be put under the overall auspices
and in the same premises as the Government's Institute for Disaster
Management, bringing it together. The military assets were and
are being tasked by the civilians, that is in this case the World
Food Programme running the logistics unit with INGC staff to make
sure there is a coherent operation and that those in need are
receiving the necessary support. At the provincial level, responsibility
has been given by the Government to the provincial governors.
Again, we are providing additional support to them to make sure
their outreach can be strengthened in the very difficult circumstances
that you have seen. That includes providing a multi-disciplinary
team, which we are now doing, through funding that has just been
made available to us by DFID in order to strengthen the capacity
of the provincial authorities to handle the problems and the influx
of aid. At the local level again the Government has a structure
which I was very pleased to see in the camps I visited was visible
and was operating with support from the international community—UN,
yes, but also the non-governmental organisations. Mr Chairman,
what I am trying to do is give a picture of a country which has
had an unprecedented disaster, which no country, I would suggest,
is equipped to handle and certainly not one as poor as Mozambique,
which has taken hold of the situation, has benefited from the
support of the international community, including the UN, in order
to be able to lead its way with assistance out of this disaster
and on to the subsequent phases. Subsequent phases: as you will
be aware the television cameras have now left Mozambique, we do
not see the bright images, the striking images, of rescues from
treetops, mercifully, but that does not mean the emergency is
over. Indeed, we are watching very closely now, as there is the
potential for the rivers to rise again and we are concerned that
therefore people do not rush back to their homes prematurely in
order that they may need to be saved again. The rescue phase has
been completed. We are now looking at a phase where some 450,000
people displaced and those who are in isolated settlements need
to be given basic needs in over 101 locations. These people need,
obviously, food, health care, water and clean water and sanitation
and shelter. We hope this will be a temporary phase, we look forward
to their reintegration back into the villages and towns they came
from. Again, they will need additional support to do that. They
will need, in addition, support to revive their institutions—the
schools, the clinics—their agriculture, the feeder roads
to the agriculture. Indeed to that end we, with the Government
of Mozambique, yesterday in Maputo launched what we are calling
a transitional appeal which essentially will cover the next six
months in humanitarian terms and emergency relief requirements
for when people are able to return to their towns and villages.
The balance outstanding for that is 102 million, I believe, given
that we have about 60 million already covered out of the 160 million
which is estimated to be required. The next phase, if I may, in
this process is the long-term reconstruction needs of the areas
which have been damaged. Here, again, the UN and the Government
of Mozambique will be convening a conference in Rome at the end
of April which is being prepared now by a range of donors and
governments under the guidance of the Government of Mozambique,
which will look at the needs for longer-term reconstruction of
the areas which are really five provinces now and two cities,
following the completion of this six month appeal we are talking
about here. So there is a lead time being given to the development
actors to get through their procedures to translate pledges we
expect to come at that time into reality into programmes on the
ground to pick up and continue the necessary work of reconstruction.
I do want to mention the normal Consultative Group of Mozambique.
At one stage it was suggested that perhaps the reconstruction
of this area should be linked to the Consultative Group. The Government
has taken the view that they have long-term programmes to attack
the poverty in their country, they have been doing extremely well
in macro-economic terms, they recognise the extraordinary damage
which has been done but the top figure of those affected in that
area is under 2 million of a population of 17 million and they
do not wish their efforts to be diverted from the long-term need
to continue looking after the concerns of the rest of the population.
A lot of figures have been thrown around. I mentioned a figure
of about 450,000 being fed, we are looking at a figure which we
are planning on of 650,000 for the six months who will need emergency
relief. The Government has a figure of slightly less than that,
a million of those who are directly affected by these floods and
the other million, if you will, is those indirectly affected,
but it is a country which is going to need substantial help in
order to overcome the problems in the areas which have had this
damage, but it is not a country which is on its knees. It is a
country which is proceeding to lead its way out of this problem
and interact with the international community and, with help from
its friends—which certainly the United Kingdom should be
counted amongst—has made considerable progress in dealing
with the complexity of this disaster. Thank you, Sir.
186. Thank you very much indeed for that explanation.
We would like to cover the situation, as you say, in phases. We
will start with the current situation, then the period to 25th
February and then the further phase of the week of the crisis,
from 25th February, and then talk about the longer-term. I wonder
if you can help us have it clear in our minds exactly what the
role of OCHA is and how it relates to this other organisation
called the United Nations Disaster Assessment and Co-ordination
Group? How are the operations of OCHA initiated and how do you
work? We did come to see you in Geneva in December—unfortunately
you were not in town at that time and nor was the head of OCHA—but
we did get the impression that at that time OCHA knew where every
helicopter was, where every store of food was, whenever transport
was needed by air, sea or rail, OCHA knew where to get hold of
it, and you were already to go at the drop of a hat, which was
very reassuring, but we just do not quite know how you work. I
wonder if you could explain to us how the organisation works?
(Ross Mountain) I would be happy to try. First of
all, OCHA is, as part of the United Nations Secretariat, concerned
with co-ordination, policy and advocacy on disaster management
issues, both natural disasters, such as Mozambique, and complex
emergencies, such as Angola, the Sudan, East Timor, North Korea
and so on.
187. Kosovo perhaps?
(Ross Mountain) And Kosovo perhaps, indeed. In the
case of how we operate with the UNDAC team, the UNDAC team is
a project or a programme of OCHA, it is our immediate response
arm. It is a mechanism which consists of over 100 people who have
been trained in disaster assessment and co-ordination. Roughly
half, perhaps slightly more in fact, have come from governments
who agree that these people will continue in their normal job
but will be made available and funded working under the UN umbrella
when disaster strikes and the need for them is evident. Gilbert
Greenall is one such person. He works normally—and I will
let Gilbert explain what "normally" means—in the
UK but he has made himself available when these kind of disasters
strike on many occasions. He has such equipment as is required
with him at home and we normally have these people mobilised within
12 hours to go to disaster sites. In the case of Gilbert, for
example, and other governments in Europe in particular are involved
in this, all the expenses are paid by the British Government,
by DFID, but he is there as a UN operative, if you will, in situ.
How does it operate? When we have instances of serious disaster,
we mobilise the team very quickly. In fact Katarina in real life,
when she is not running teams herself, is back in Geneva in part
of the unit which keeps in touch with those and makes sure we
are able to mobilise people very quickly. It is a mechanism which
responds very quickly. I am able to speak as somebody who in the
past has benefited from receiving teams on the ground. They are
fielded under the authority of the resident co-ordinator in the
country to support initially the UN resident co-ordinator in the
country team and to be deployed, as the resident co-ordinator
did in Mozambique, to support the Government directly if that
be the need, but it is to provide expertise to the country team.
Mozambique has about 500 UN staff there on a regular basis, about
150 of which are international. The UNDAC team was fielded on
both occasions within 48 hours of the notification of the major
disaster. We, with the other parts of the UN system in Mozambique,
after the floods of the weekend of 26th, 27th, had 90 international
personnel in Mozambique in the following week to bolster the UN
team and the Government's response.
188. That is very useful. Would Dr Greenall
like to say what he normally does?
(Gilbert Greenall) I am a medical doctor by training.
189. You are in practice in this country, are
you?
(Gilbert Greenall) Not for the last 18 months but
prior to that I used to practise accident and emergency medicine
in Cheltenham.
Chairman: That does clarify your organisation
a little bit for us. We were wondering whether it was a separate
organisation or not, but clearly it is a sort of subsidiary of
OCHA or an arm of OCHA. You have explained how it works, rather
like our lifeboat system round the coast, where they all do other
jobs but are called together in an emergency. Thank you for that.
I am going to ask Mr Rowe if he would lead us on the questions
on the current situation. I think you have covered quite a lot
of it but there are a few things we would still like to ask you.
Mr Rowe
190. I was going to say, Mr Mountain has given
us quite a lot of information. I was not clear whether the flood
waters at the moment have receded but you are frightened of more
coming shortly, or whether they have not yet receded. Can you
also give us some idea of the current estimate of the number who
have died in this emergency to date?
(Ross Mountain) The flood waters have been receding
over the last two or three weeks. There has been rain and in some
places, for example at the Zambezi River, there have been concerns
expressed there may be problems developing there, and that rain
in the neighbouring countries may cause the rivers to rise. Recent
rains which fell have stopped or stabilised the falling levels
but so far the levels are not giving further cause for concern,
however the Limpopo River is still above its crisis level. It
has not gone back within its banks. I do not know how many metres
it is above but while it has been falling it is still above anything
like a normal level. The number who have died is estimated by
the Government to be just under 500 at the present time. We regard
that, as they do, as an interim figure. We are concerned that
as the flood waters do recede we may indeed find further bodies.
I have to say also that we are concerned that the mines, which
unfortunately are prolific in Mozambique, could also cause later
casualties as the mine fields which have been mapped out, the
areas have been cleared, are now in those flooded areas. That
of course is not the whole country but in those areas certainly
there is cause for concern.
191. What is the estimate of how many internally
displaced persons are there in Mozambique? Where are they living
and in what sort of conditions? What is the incidence of disease
and malnutrition?
(Ross Mountain) We had been earlier working on a figure
of about 250,000 people being displaced from their homes. There
is, of course, in addition to that, a number of people who are,
while they may still be in their own homes, living very much isolated
by the flood waters. We are providing food for over a hundred
centres, and those who are having difficulty otherwise getting
access, need that support. There are no epidemics at the moment
on the health side. Cholera is endemic and there have been and
continue to be problems but we do not have epidemics of that.
Malaria is a major cause for concern and the incidence of malaria
has risen very dramatically subsequent to the floods. That these
are being kept in control I think is due to the very good collaboration
between the Ministry of Health in Mozambique, the UN agencies
like UNICEF and WHO, and the non-governmental organisations which
are working together. This may be obvious but in a disaster, particularly
one of this size, everything does not work automatically from
the beginning. There is, unfortunately, an inevitable period of
chaos and pulling it together, and again in the case of Mozambique
we think this is coming together very quickly due to the collaboration
which is being developed between all partners.
192. Has there been an estimate of the cost
to Mozambique of the floods and of the funds necessary for reconstruction?
Also, could you tell us a little about what are the immediate
developmental needs rather than the long-term ones?
(Ross Mountain) Let me just go back a bit. After the
floods which were provoked by the rains in early February, there
was an international appeal from the Government of Mozambique
and the UN for 65 million dollars. That appeal was in fact overtaken
by the events of the subsequent weekend and when I last looked
we had managed against the notion of an appeal for Mozambique,
not that particular one, received indications that donors had
contributed over 118 million dollars, including the value of some
of the things in kind which they have been able to put a figure
on but not all the inputs in kind. Yesterday, in Maputo, again
with the Government, we launched this six month appeal which is
for humanitarian assistance for six months and emergency reconstruction
efforts which are required in order to enable people to go back
and start on their life, such as fixing schools, repairing dispensaries,
getting agricultural back-up. That estimate is for 160 million
dollars, of which some 58.5 million is to hand from other funds
which have been contributed, so we are looking at about 101 million,
102 million dollars at this stage for the next six months. Again,
I should draw the distinction between that and the longer-term
reconstruction which will need to take place after that six months,
because it takes a while to crank up the normal reconstruction
development institutions because they work by different procedures,
as is natural, and that is why we are trying to avoid the gap
between the relief phase and the development phase by having this
six month appeal prior to a conference which, as I mentioned,
the Government of Mozambique and the UN will be convening in Rome
at the end of April for the longer-term. That conference will
very much involve the United Nations' Development Programme and
the leadership role.
193. I am not absolutely sure I picked this
up, can you confirm, is there a UNDAC team still in Mozambique?
(Ross Mountain) Yes, it is, and we will continue our
presence through the six months, both in Beira, where we still
have people and will continue to have people, and in Maputo, to
facilitate the relief stage. Again there is the UN country team
there and they played a very major role and will continue to play
a very major role as well in dealing in the areas of expertise
in supporting the government departments and indeed the Government
overall.
194. There has been a lot of confusion in recent
days about how many helicopters are needed and how many are there.
How many are operating in the country at the moment?
(Ross Mountain) Katarina, do we have a figure on that?
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) Yes, there are at present,
according to my conversation this morning with the field, 23 helicopters
on the ground and 15 light aircraft.
(Ross Mountain) If I might add to that: most of the
military resources are now in the process of withdrawal from Mozambique,
so we are indeed concerned about the continuation of access to
helicopters, and in the appeal that has been launched that is
a major item which will need to be addressed through the hire
of commercial helicopters.
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) It is indeed a priority
for the relief team in Mozambique. As the military assets are
leaving, and they probably will be all gone by the end of this
month, the UN is looking at replacing that capacity by the rental
of commercial aircraft, so they are appealing for that in the
appeal which was launched yesterday up to an amount of about 10
million dollars. We understand that the United Kingdom and the
United States have already come forward to provide part of that
funding, so that is very encouraging.
Mr Rowe: I am very sorry, Mr Chairman,
but, as you know, I have a long-standing engagement in my constituency
today, and the change of date has thrown me completely, so I am
afraid I must leave you. Thank you very much.
Chairman
195. The number of deaths, which you say is
500, is that deaths from drowning or is it deaths from all causes?
(Ross Mountain) It is slightly less than 500.
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) I understand that that is
as a result of the floods, the direct result of the floods, so
I think mostly by drowning. In addition to that, there are reported
deaths from diseases.
196. Have you got a figure on that?
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) I had a figure of 61 deaths
from cholera but by now that might be a little out-dated.
(Ross Mountain) We can seek those figures for you
if you would like.[2]
197. Yes, we would like some more accuracy,
although I am sure they cannot be completely accurate. 61 from
cholera. As you say, cholera is endemic, I would not have thought
that is excessive over a period of, what, a month?
(Ross Mountain) I pass to my medical colleague.
(Gilbert Greenall) Certainly at the time I was there,
there was no epidemic of cholera. Cholera is endemic and at this
time of year the incidence of cholera rises but it had not reached
an epidemic.
198. Because the newspapers, the radio and media
were talking about thousands of people dying, but that is simply
an exaggeration, is it?
(Ross Mountain) I have not seen that report, but certainly
not, no. We fear that that toll may rise, the one the Government
has given us so far, as the waters recede. I mentioned landmines
being a potential problem for the future and there is always the
danger of disease, but, as I say, so far that is under control.
I certainly have no basis for a figure of thousands at this juncture,
mercifully.
199. Mercifully, yes. I am delighted to hear
that. Who is the United Nations co-ordinator in Mozambique? It
is usually the UNDP leader, is that the case in Mozambique?
(Ross Mountain) That is correct. The resident co-ordinator
is Mr Emmanuel de Casterle.
2 Note by Witness: We have received the following
information on cholera and other diseases from the UN team in-country
as of 30 March.
"The number of suspected cholera cases in Maputo reached
860 last week (ie week of 20 March), as compared with 295 at the
same time last year. (In the previous week the figures were 478
as compared with 352 last year. Until the previous week, the figures
had remained lower than last year). However, it should be noted
that only 12 cases are confirmed cholera, and the Ministry of
Health is not regarding this as an epidemic. Malaria is also on
the increase with 16,773 cases in Maputo last week (as compared
with 11,520 at the same time last year). A statistical breakdown
of patients seeking assistance shows 21 per cent malaria, 21 per
cent diarrhoea, 18 per cent respiratory illnesses, and 40 per
cent other ailments. The Ministry of Health therefore recommends
a return from the camps as soon as possible, but the Minister
of Foreign Affairs has ruled that this is still premature as the
risk of renewed flooding cannot be ruled out yet.". Back
|
