Examination of witnesses (Questions 280
- 299)
THURSDAY 23 MARCH 2000
ROSS MOUNTAIN,
KATARINATOLL-VELASQUEZ
and GILBERT GREENALL
280. Commercial aircraft?
(Gilbert Greenall) Which I think had been used for
the floods in South Africa.
281. They were not from Mozambique?
(Gilbert Greenall) I did not see the registrations
on the back of them but I am fairly sure they were South African.
Ms King
282. You mentioned that there were 60 helicopters.
(Ross Mountain) 60 aircraft. I have a correction—59.
283. We are going down by the minute! How many
of those 59 are helicopters?
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) Most of them were helicopters.
(Ross Mountain) About 40 maybe.
284. Okay and many of them are now being withdrawn
because you have also said the current situation is 23 helicopters
and 15 light aircraft. Does that mean that this was a case of
too much or inappropriate aid arriving too late?
(Ross Mountain) It means that there was an amazing
outpouring of support and solidarity with Mozambique and many
governments did wish to respond and did respond on the basis of
public interest and pressure, the interest of the media, and many
assets were sent that were not specifically asked for. Is it too
many too late? I do not believe they went too late. I think these
assets did arrive, many of them from Europe, and of course it
takes a minimum of time to fold up a helicopter, stick it in a
plane, and unfold it at the other end, and in a number of cases
transhipped via South Africa. When I left, which is just over
a week ago now, all these assets were being employed both out
of Beira and Maputo and productively so, no, they were used. But
that obviously was a spontaneous outpouring from many countries
who wished to contribute. It was a challenge for managing it logistically,
but that is the way it works.
285. That is the logistical management and everyone
is casting an eye now just to see how systems can be improved.
Does it not come back to the problem of a more efficient type
of clearing house if those assets are coming in but by the time
they reach the place they are no longer appropriate?
(Ross Mountain) First of all, I am not saying they
were inappropriate when they arrived, but I did try and describe
in the co-ordination structure how there was a joint air operation
unit which was part of the civil/military operations centre and
these air assets were being tasked by the civilians through the
WFP logistical co-ordination cell, the WFP/INGC. Yes, we had managed
to pull that together under the Government's overall control.
That is no mean feat and, frankly, it would have been very difficult
if we had not had standing arrangements with the NATO forces in
particular but with the South African soldiers as well to understand
that they should not go off and do their own thing in terms of
distributing the aid, that this should be rationalised and managed
in relation to the needs of the operation as a whole and that
worked well. If I may add, there were also many spontaneous donations
that arrived at the airport without anybody asking for them. You
can take the view that maybe it might have been better if some
of these had not arrived, but this is the way things happen in
these kind of natural disasters particularly when there is such
a sympathy for a country. We had aircraft from all manner of countries
arriving not just the near neighbours, wider from Africa and the
Middle East and elsewhere.
286. Does that mean these countries are not
tied into the co-ordinated donor programme in Mozambique? Presumably
if they were they would know you did not need some of this.
(Ross Mountain) I guess it does. It means that some
do not have a look at the situation reports to know what the priorities
are. Many of them want to show that they care and they want to
show tangibly they care by sending things down. Sometimes it is
things you need; at other times it is things that you, frankly,
do not need.
287. How do you communicate with those countries
that are not tied in immediately? Do you have a system in a situation
like that so that for those people who are not on the ground in
Mozambique (those countries like Morocco who want to send something)
you can communicate with those governments so that they send appropriate
aid?
(Ross Mountain) We do not have the capacity. We ask
all donors to tell us what they are doing. We produce a regular
list which is available to all donors as to who is doing what.
We put out situation reports for what is required. But this is
not a closed system. It is based on people opting in. I recall
in Lebanon when we had a particular problem there that one country
did supply chocolate-flavoured sweet potato which was not on anybody's
list, shall we say, and another one provided sleeping bags which
were not on the list either, but this is something they had they
felt might be useful and were keen to indicate that they cared
about what was happening. It is not a strictly technical approach.
288. I just have two more questions on helicopters
you will be pleased to know and then we are going to be moving
off that subject. The five additional helicopters provided by
DFID on 29th February, can you tell us when they began flying,
how many had winches, if you are able to tell us this, and what
were they engaged on? Was it save and rescue, delivery of supplies
or both?
(Gilbert Greenall) I could say something about the
winches but I cannot be precise on that.
289. Winches first.
(Gilbert Greenall) I have read the transcript about
winches and I think it is a misconception about winches. Winches
cannot be put in and out of most aircraft like stretchers. They
are very heavy and part of the superstructure of the aircraft.
We end up a situation sometimes having winches when we do not
want them and they weigh at least 70 kilos. There are problems
of losing lift as a result of having the winches. Sometimes we
have the reverse situation where we need the winches and do not
have them. So getting helicopters is a key thing. Whether they
have winches or not, I am afraid, is the luck of the draw normally.
It is very difficult to be as specific as that.
290. We do not know how many DFID helicopters
had winches. Do we know when they began flying as far as you are
aware?
(Ross Mountain) Maybe DFID could respond better to
that. I am afraid I do not have a figure. Do you have a figure?
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) I believe they were sent
down on 29th February so if you allow 12 or 15 hours for the flight
down.
(Ross Mountain) These are the military ones or the
South African hired?
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) There were two parts on
29th February but really I am quoting here out of evidence of
DFID so that is information which does not come from us.
291. You are aware we take that information
from them but we want to try and fit it into the wider picture.
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) Absolutely.
292. Four Puma helicopters and Fort George (with
its Sea King helicopters) have been used in Mozambique. In your
assessment have they fulfilled an essential role which could not
have been provided by others in the region?
(Ross Mountain) As I understand it, the Pumas were
deployed from Maputo and the Sea Kings were in Beira supporting
the operation up there. Both were doing extraordinarily useful
work and were fully tasked. I can certainly speak up until the
period that I left. The Pumas have now been withdrawn and the
Sea Kings are expected to go this weekend, I believe.
(Katarina Toll-Velasquez) They wrapped up. According
to our understanding this morning they have stopped operating
to wrap up and leave.
(Ross Mountain) But as mentioned, let's not be ambiguous,
we are saying there is a continuing need for helicopters not for
the rescue phase, but for continuing to supply isolated communities
and we are indeed counting on donor governments to find the resources,
the 10 million that has been indicated. Having said that, we remain
keen to move out of helicopters as soon as we can. It is an expensive
and not the most effective way except where you cannot use the
road to move substantial resources such as weighty food parcels
and so on.
Chairman
293. Would it have been better for them to have
been in place much earlier? We knew about the floods, as you say,
at the end of January. If a request had been made the Fort George
could have been sailed at the beginning of February and been in
place when you really needed it?
(Ross Mountain) Mr Chairman, hindsight is certainly
something one would say it would be wonderful if they were on
site when that occurred but these are expensive assets and military
assets are very expensive even having stand-by helicopter capacity.
As so often it is—
294. Our Secretary of State has said that money
is not the problem so we do not really take your argument, at
least she does not take your argument, that the money question
is important. The figures given to us for the cost of sailing
Fort George is of the order of one and a quarter million for three
weeks.
(Ross Mountain) You talked about in January the rains,
that was limited to Maputo. For example, there will be a rainy
season again next year which will be February/March.
295. There is every year.
(Ross Mountain) There is every year and usually it
is manageable; sometimes it is not.
296. That is right.
(Ross Mountain) Are we prepared to invest, we the
international community, to put massive resources on hand at the
risk they may not be needed?
297. Can I ask you over how many days was the
save and rescue operation conducted? We have the rains and the
rivers rising. We are now on Saturday 26th of February.
(Gilbert Greenall) It started over the weekend and
ran up until the following weekend.
298. So that whole week, Saturday 26th to Saturday
March 4th. Right?
(Gilbert Greenall) Approximately.
299. They were on save and rescue operations
for that period?
(Gilbert Greenall) For that period. It was over earlier
on the Save and Buzi. It was already over by Thursday 2nd.
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