House of Commons - Armed Forces - First Special Report

Select Committee on Armed Forces First Special Report

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

TUESDAY 16 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Motion made, That Ms Dari Taylor do take the Chair of the Committee.—(Mr John Randall.)

Motion made, That Rachel Squire do take the Chair of the Committee.—(Mr David Clelland.)

Question proposed, That Ms Dari Taylor do take the Chair of the Committee. Motion by leave withdrawn.

Question, That Rachel Squire do take the Chair of the Committee, put and agreed to.

Rachel Squire accordingly took the Chair.

Members disclosed their pecuniary interests pursuant to the resolution of the House of 13 July 1992.

Ordered, That Strangers be admitted during the examination of witnesses unless the Committee otherwise orders.—(The Chairman.)

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Committee do visit the Military Corrective Training Facility and Colchester Barracks.—(The Chairman.)

Resolved, That the Committee do visit Kosovo and Cyprus.—(The Chairman.)

Ordered, That the Chairman do seek the approval of the Liaison Committee for expenditure in connection with the visit.

The Committee further deliberated.

[Adjourned till Thursday 18 January at Ten o'clock.

THURSDAY 18 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Ordered, That Rear Admiral Richard Cobbold be appointed a Specialist Adviser.—(The Chairman.)

Mr Barry Miller, Director General, Service Personnel Policy, Mr Humphrey Morrison, Legal Adviser, Mr David Woodhead, Head of the Armed Forces Bill Team, Brigadier Maurice Nugent, Provost Marshal (Army), Commodore Barry Bryant, Director, Naval Service Conditions, and Air Commodore Rick Charles, Deputy Director, Legal Services (RAF), of the Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 23 January at a quarter past Ten o'clock.

TUESDAY 23 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Mr Barry Miller, Director General, Service Personnel Policy, Mr Humphrey Morrison, Legal Adviser, Mr David Woodhead, Head of the Armed Forces Bill Team, Commodore Barry Bryant, Director, Naval Service Conditions, and Air Commodore Rick Charles, Deputy Director, Legal Services (RAF), of the Ministry of Defence, were further examined.

Brigadier Nick Cottam, Director, Personal Services (Army), Brigadier David Howell, Brigadier Prosecutions, Army Prosecuting Authority, Commodore Jeff Blackett, Chief Naval Judge Advocate, Air Commodore Andy Collier, Director, Personal Management Agency (Policy) (RAF), and Mr Paul Crowther, Head of Ministry of Defence Police Secretariat, of the Ministry of Defence, were examined.

[Adjourned till Thursday 25 January at Ten o'clock.

THURSDAY 25 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Committee do visit HMS Invincible.—(The Chairman.)

Mr Barry Miller, Director General, Service Personnel Policy, Mr Humphrey Morrison, Legal Adviser, Commodore Barry Bryant, Director, Naval Service Conditions, Brigadier Nick Cottam, Director, Personal Services (Army), Air Commodore Andy Collier, Director, Personal Management Agency (Policy) (RAF), and Mr Paul Crowther, Head of Ministry of Defence Police Secretariat, of the Ministry of Defence, were further examined.

Mr Martin Fuller, Director, Service Personnel Policy Service Conditions, of the Ministry of Defence and Mr Tony Comben, Deputy Chief Constable, Ministry of Defence Police, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 30 January at Ten o'clock.

TUESDAY 30 JANUARY 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Mr Colin McKerracher, Assistant Chief Constable, Strathclyde Police and member of ACPOS General Policing Standing Committee, of the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland, was examined.

Mr Paul Trickey, National Chairman, and Mr Tom Cullen, Vice-Chairman, of the Defence Police Federation, were examined.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 6 February at Ten o'clock.

TUESDAY 6 FEBRUARY 2001

MORNING SITTING

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Mr Paul Scott-Lee, Chief Constable, Suffolk Constabulary, of the Association of Chief Police Officers of England, Wales and Northern Ireland, was examined.

Mr Michael Legge, Deputy Under-Secretary of State, Civilian Management, Mr D Lloyd Clarke, Chief Constable, Ministry of Defence Police, Mrs Gloria Craig, Director General, Security and Support, and Ms Frances Nash, Legal Adviser, of the Ministry of Defence, were examined.

Mr Tony Comben, Deputy Chief Constable, and Mr Paul Crowther, Head of Secretariat, of the Ministry of Defence Police, were further examined.

[Adjourned till this day at Four o'clock.

TUESDAY 6 FEBRUARY 2001

AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 13 February at Ten o'clock.

TUESDAY 13 FEBRUARY 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Mr Tim Gopsill, Editor of The Journalist, Mr Tony Geraghty, journalist, and Ms Gillian Linscott, journalist, of the National Union of Journalists, were examined.

Mr William Bache, Solicitor, and Ms Jacqui Cameron, Administrator, of Forces Law, were examined.

Mrs Gwyn Gwyntopher, Voluntary Counsellor, and Mrs Margaret Johnston, Voluntary Counsellor, of At Ease, were examined.

[Adjourned till Thursday 15 February at half-past Ten o'clock.

THURSDAY 15 FEBRUARY 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

[Adjourned to a day and time to be fixed by the Chairman.

THURSDAY 1 MARCH 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 6 March at Ten o'clock.

TUESDAY 6 MARCH 2001

MORNING SITTING

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Mr Barry Miller, Director General, Service Personnel Policy, and Brigadier Nick Cottam, Director, Personal Services (Army), of the Ministry of Defence, were further examined.

[Adjourned till this day at a quarter to Four o'clock.

TUESDAY 6 MARCH 2001

AFTERNOON SITTING

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Admiral Sir Michael Boyce GCB, OBE, Chief of the Defence Staff, was examined.

The Venerable John Blackburn, QHC, Chaplain-General, was examined.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at half-past Five o'clock.

WEDNESDAY 7 MARCH 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Rt Hon Geoffrey Hoon, a Member of the House, Secretary of State for Defence, was examined.

Mr Michael Legge, Deputy Under-Secretary of State, Civilian Management, of the Ministry of Defence and Mr Tony Comben, Deputy Chief Constable, of the Ministry of Defence Police, were further examined.

[Adjourned till tomorrow at Ten o'clock.

THURSDAY 8 MARCH 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Resolved, That the Armed Forces Bill be now considered.

Clauses 1 to 9 agreed to.

Clause 10 (Search upon arrest).

Amendments (Nos. 1 and 2) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 11 to 13 agreed to.

Clause 14 (Power to use reasonable force).

Amendment (No. 3) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 15 agreed to.

Clause 16 (Part II: supplementary provisions).

Amendments (Nos. 4 to 6) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 17 to 19 agreed to.

Clause 20 (Eligibility of warrant officers for membership of summary appeal courts).

Amendment (No. 7) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 21 to 30 agreed to.

Clause 31 (Extension of jurisdiction).

Amendment (No. 35) proposed, in page 31, line 15, to leave out subsections (2) to (7) and insert the words:

'(2) Members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall, on request of a Chief Constable of a Home Office Police Force adjacent to land defined in 2(2) (a) (b) (c) of the Ministry of Defence Police Act 1987, and by agreement with the Chief Constable of the Ministry of Defence Police, be attested as Special Constables of the Home Office Police Force in that area, under the Police Act 1996.

(3) When taking part in any operations or investigations which may result in the prosecution of individuals or groups of individuals not employed by the Secretary of State for Defence or the Defence Council or subject to the control of the Defence Council, members of the Ministry of Defence Police shall act in their capacity of Special Constables of a Home Office Police Force, responsible to the Chief Constable of the Home Office Police Force in which they are attested.'.—(Mr Paul Keetch.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Another Amendment (No. 38) proposed, in page 31, line 19, to leave out the words 'or on behalf of'.—(Mr Robert Key.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Another Amendment (No. 41) proposed, in page 31, line 26, after 'the' to insert the words 'Ministry of Defence Police Committee and the'.—(Mr Robert Key.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Another Amendment (No. 36) proposed, in page 31, line 41, at the end, to insert the words:

'(2A) After subsection (2) there shall be inserted—

"(2A) Any request made, or agreement given, under subsection (2) above shall be made in written form.

(2B) All requests made, and agreements given, under subsection (2) above shall be listed in the annual report of the Chief Constable, and copies will be made available for public inspections in accordance with arrangements agreed by the Ministry of Defence Police Committee.".'—(Mr Robert Key.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Another Amendment (No. 37) proposed, in page 32, line 9, at the end, to insert the words:

'(3A) After subsection (3) there is inserted—

"(3A) Where a person arrested under the provisions of subsection (3) above is subsequently charged with—

(a) an offence of

(i) murder, or

(ii) manslaughter, or

(iii) rape, or

(iv) attempted murder, or

(v) attempted rape, or

(b) an offence under the Official Secrets Act,

it shall be the duty of the Chief Constable of the Ministry of Defence Police to request the Chief Officer of another police force to continue any investigation or further proceedings.".'—(Mr Robert Key.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause agreed to.

Clauses 32 agreed to.

Clause 33 (Power to make provision in consequence of enactments relating to criminal justice).

Amendments (Nos. 8 and 9) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 34 (Powers to test for alcohol or drugs after serious incident).

Amendments (Nos.10 and 11) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 35 and 36 agreed to.

Clause 37 (Orders and regulations).

Amendment (No. 12) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 38 (Application to Channel Islands and Isle of Man).

Amendments (Nos. 13 to 16) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

Clauses 39 and 40 agreed to.

Clause 41 (Short title and commencement).

Amendments (Nos. 17 to 19) made.

Clause, as amended, agreed to.

A Clause (Complaints and disciplinary procedures)—(Mr Robert Key)— brought up and read the first time, as follows:

'After Section 2 of the Ministry of Defence Police Act 1987, there is inserted the following section—

"2A.- (1) Within twelve months of the coming into effect of this Section, the Secretary of State shall make regulations applying, with appropriate amendments and exclusions, the provisions of Chapter I of Part IV of the Police Act 1996 to the Ministry of Defence Police.

(2) Regulations made under this section shall be made by statutory instrument and shall not be made unless a draft of the instrument has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.

(3) The power of the Secretary of State to make regulations under this section includes the power to make such incidental, consequential or transitional provisions as he thinks fit.".'.

Question proposed, That the Clause be read a second time. Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

Schedule 1 agreed to.

Schedule 2 (Membership of courts-martial).

Amendments (Nos. 20 to 24) made.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 3 agreed to.

Schedule 4 (Amendments relating to custody).

Amendments (Nos. 25 and 26) made.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 5 (Amendments relating to Ministry of Defence Police).

An Amendment (No. 43), proposed, in page 64, line 40, at the end, to insert the words:

'1A. After Section 1 of that Act there is inserted—

"Reports by chief constables

1A.—(1) The chief constable shall, as soon as possible after the end of each financial year, submit to the Ministry of Defence Police Committee a general report on the activities of the Ministry of Defence Police during that year.

(2) The chief constable shall arrange for the report submitted by him under subsection (1) to be published in such manner as appears to him to be appropriate.

(3) The chief constable shall, whenever so required by the Committee, submit to it a report on such matters as may be specified in the requirement.

(4) A report submitted under subsection (3) shall be in such form as the Committee may specify.

(5) If it appears to the chief constable that a report in compliance with subsection (3) would contain information which in the public interest ought not be disclosed he may refer the requirement to submit the report to the Secretary of State; and in any such case the requirement shall be of no effect unless it is confirmed by the Secretary of State.

(6) The Committee may arrange, or require the chief constable to arrange, for a report submitted under subsection (3) to be published in such manner as appears to the Committee to be appropriate.".'.—(Mr Robert Key.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Another Amendment (No. 44) proposed, in page 64, line 40, at the end, to insert the words:

'1B. After Section 1 of that Act, there is inserted—

"Inspections

2A.—(1) The inspectors of constabulary shall inspect, and report to the Secretary of State on the efficiency and effectiveness of the Ministry of Defence Police.

(2) The inspectors of constabulary shall carry out such other duties for the purpose of furthering the efficiency and effectiveness of the Ministry of Defence Police as the Secretary of State may from time to time direct.

(3) The chief inspector of constabulary shall in each year submit to the Secretary of State a report in such form as the Secretary of State may direct, and the Secretary of State shall lay a copy of that report before Parliament.

(4) Subject to subsection (5), the Secretary of State shall arrange for any report received by him under subsection (2) to be published in such manner as appears to him to be appropriate.

(5) The Secretary of State may exclude from publication under subsection (4) any part of a report if, in his opinion, the publication of that part—

(a) would be against the interests of national security, or

(b) might jeopardise the safety of any person.

(6) The Ministry of Defence Police Committee shall invite the chief constable to submit comments on the published report to the Committee before such date as it may specify.

(7) The Committee shall prepare comments on the published report and shall arrange for—

(a) its comments,

(b) any comments submitted by the chief constable in accordance with subsection (6), and

to be published in such manner as appears to the Secretary of State to be appropriate.".'.—(Mr Robert Key.)

Question proposed, That the Amendment be made. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendments (Nos. 27 to 29) made.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 6 agreed to.

Schedule 7 (Miscellaneous amendments).

Amendment (No. 30) made.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 8 (Repeals).

Amendments (Nos. 31 to 34) made.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

[Adjourned till Tuesday 13 March at half-past Ten o'clock.

TUESDAY 13 MARCH 2001

Members present:

Rachel Squire, in the Chair

The Committee deliberated.

Draft Report, proposed by the Chairman, brought up and read.

Ordered, That the draft Report be read a second time paragraph by paragraph.

Paragraphs 1 to 67 read and agreed to.

Annex agreed to.

Resolved, That the Report be the Special Report of the Committee to the House.

Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.

Ordered, That the following Paper be appended to the Report: List of Amendments to the Clauses of the Bill.—(The Chairman.)

Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence taken before the Committee be reported to the House.—(The Chairman.)

Several Papers were ordered to be reported to the House.

Ordered, That the Armed Forces Bill, as amended, be reported to the House.

The Committee further deliberated.



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