Examination of Witness (Questions 180
- 193)
TUESDAY 30 JANUARY 2001
MR JAFFER
KAPASI OBE DL MKD
180. I thought it was the first conversation
which had the interruption and the phone was put down?
(Mr Kapasi) No, it was the second one. The first conversation
I had with both of them in my office where I was tape recorded
without my knowledge. The second conversation I had was on the
mobile phone. Annex 158, page 4, if you go half way, I ask him,
"Are you going to do a story on this ....?" and he said,
"Well, I mean the point is sir that you are involved. That's
the problem." That is when I realised I had done something
gravely wrong by giving my story. Then I tried to retract, as
you go down the lines, "Well, I would deny that anyway ..."
and then, "... I don't want to get involved." I also
said, "I trusted you to respect that", and what I meant
was that this is an off the record conversation I am having with
him without any knowledge of being taped—and I believe from
my solicitor illegally—and when I tried to retract and said,
"Look, there's something wrong here", he put the phone
down.
181. You got a letter from the Commissioner
in March about the investigations I think?
(Mr Kapasi) Yes.
182. When you last spoke to Mr Vaz about this,
do you think it was before or after that?
(Mr Kapasi) When the Sunday Times article came
I immediately realised the grave error which I had made, and this
time I tried to find out who was the best solicitor in the city
to deal with media affairs, and I was given the name of Mark Stephens,
so I contacted him. Prior to other newspapers events, I have another
recollection in 1994 or 1995 when I did talk to Mr Vaz about that.
183. If you go back to March last year, when
I think the Commissioner wrote to you, do you think your last
conversation with Mr Vaz about these issues was before you received
the letter from her or afterwards?
(Mr Kapasi) Before.
184. Are you quite sure about that? Are you
absolutely certain or is it your recollection? What I am really
saying is, is it possible you got the letter from the Commissioner
and then you had the conversation with Mr Vaz about it?
(Mr Kapasi) The only conversation I had is in March
2000 when the Sunday Telegraph reported. That is when I
actually talked to him but after that we had no discussion.
185. After the conversation with the journalists
or after the article came out?
(Mr Kapasi) After the article came out in March 2000.
186. You then spoke to Mr Vaz and that was probably
the last time you spoke to him about these issues?
(Mr Kapasi) Yes.
Mr Bottomley: I understand, Mr Kapasi,
you are not wishing to get involved in this and it is not on your
initiative, but can you accept that the Committee has heard in
four conversations with journalists which you accept took place,
and in one conversation with Peter Soulsby which you have not
necessarily confirmed but I am not asking you to, over a period
of six years we have these five examples reported to us where
you have said things which you now say are not what actually happened?
Do you understand that that is the situation facing us?
Mr Bruce
187. Mr Kapasi, you are saying that what you
have said in the transcript is untrue and that you have said in
your declaration that you have made no payments to Mr Vaz, but
you are an officer of the Dawoodi community. Has the community
made any contributions to either Mr Vaz's office or his campaign
or the local Labour Party?
(Mr Kapasi) No. You see, we have since then made efforts
to check the community's records as well to see if any payment
was made. I believe the community has already confirmed that no
payments, cash or cheque, have ever been made to Mr Vaz.
188. Are they willing to make those accounts
available to the Committee, or their bank statements?
(Mr Kapasi) I am sure they would be able to but I
would have to refer this to the President of the community.
189. How about your own personal situation?
Again, in the transcript you have said things which you now say
are untrue. You said in the transcript that you issued a personal
cheque which you now say you did not. Are you therefore willing
to make your own bank statements available to the Committee?
(Mr Kapasi) Yes, I am quite happy to do that.
Mr Williams
190. This is a yes or no answer question that
has not been asked. On your own admission you have given information
to the press which has led to individuals being libelled. Has
anyone taken out or threatened to take out a libel action against
you on the basis of what you said to the press?
(Mr Kapasi) No.
Chairman
191. One final thing. You considered that Mr
Vaz was involved himself rather too much in the council's affairs.
You mentioned this earlier, that it was some years ago now. What
did you think he was doing in the council's affairs which you
opposed?
(Mr Kapasi) I think, as I mentioned to you earlier,
there is a political rivalry between Mr Vaz and Councillor Sir
Peter Soulsby.
192. Is that the extent of his involvement or
does it go further?
(Mr Kapasi) I think we were advised by Sir Peter Soulsby,
"Can you help us to see if you can write to Mr Vaz to request
him not to interfere in the affairs of the local council?"
We took up his advice and we wrote that letter. Quite a few leaders
of various temples and mosques and community organisations signed
that letter and I happened to be one of them, requesting him not
to interfere in the local authority affairs.
193. Did it have an effect?
(Mr Kapasi) I really do not know.
Chairman: Thank you for coming along
today and answering our questions, Mr Kapasi.
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