Examination of Witness (Questions 120
- 139)
TUESDAY 7 NOVEMBER 2000
MR JOHN
RAFFERTY
120. So no-one has taken over the post that
you know of?
(Mr Rafferty) Never. We agreed and we both found the
decision extremely difficult. After I went I started work in January
and we continued to be interested in each other's welfare. There
was no question of bitterness or of acrimony.
Mr Williams: Thank you.
Mr Bottomley
121. I want to jump around a bit, I find it
is the tidiest way of doing it. Whe`n bonuses were being paid
to staff, were you involved at all in that?
(Mr Rafferty) I did not know that bonuses were paid
to staff.
122. A change of thought. When you said that
you knew that Chris Winslow was doing some work for John Maxton,
am I right in saying that you did not know that Suzanne Hilliard
was doing some work for John Reid?
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
123. So in terms of your knowledge it was different
for each of them?
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
124. Do you know if the staff of any other Scottish
Westminster MPs were working in the office that you were in?
(Mr Rafferty) Not to my knowledge.
125. With the knowledge you have now there was
Kevin Reid, who had been working for John Reid and then was working
full-time for the Labour Party, there was Suzanne Hilliard who
you now know was employed to assist John Reid and you knew that
it was Chris Winslow, but that was it?
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
126. I think you told the Commissioner, and
you have told us, that the first time you became aware there was
a potential problem was in a conference call that involved Chris
Winslow in, I think, June which was after the election?
(Mr Rafferty) In September.
127. How many others might have been involved
in that conference call and who initiated it?
(Mr Rafferty) I initiated it and I think there were
seven other special advisers on the call.
128. Do you know whether either you or Chris
Winslow have given the names of the others involved to the Commissioner?
(Mr Rafferty) I cannot recall. It is a matter of record,
I think, all of the advisers were on the call.
129. At some point in the discussion with the
Commissioner I think you talked about the First Minister saying
in effect he would be careful about the possibility of someone
paid for by public funds doing party work. Am I right in saying
that the interpretation of that is basically if someone was paid
for by the public funds doing party work funded by that rather
than doing one and the other separately?
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
130. I just want to make sure that there is
no ambiguity. I had assumed that from the sense of what you were
saying but it was not clear from the words themselves. If he had
employed somebody, say, part-time who was also giving other parts
of their time paid or unpaid to party work, that would have been
acceptable, it was just make sure that no-one was being paid by
public funds actually to do party work?
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
131. I am just trying to get you to give a report
some time afterwards about the sort of feeling you had. When the
issue came up in the call with Chris Winslow, which as I understand
it was prompted by what was going on in a different party, and
in effect it raised the issue, what made you concerned about what
may or may not have been thought or said about the Labour Party
or about the Labour Party arrangements? Was it a call from a journalist
or was it just saying "if other people may have been doing
things that do not stand up to scrutiny, have we?" Were you
enquiring or were you telling people?
(Mr Rafferty) I did not follow that.
132. When the call was initiated in September—
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
133. Did you think that the Labour Party had
been doing something wrong or did you think that the media were
likely to make mischief even though there was not the foundation?
(Mr Rafferty) I suppose both but my alarm stemmed
from the fact that it may have been the case that impropriety
took place.
134. If impropriety had taken place, who would
have known?
(Mr Rafferty) I suppose the people who had engaged
the party workers and the party workers themselves.
135. Just taking it one stage further, if people
had intended what one might call impropriety in some sense, but
in practice what they had intended had not happened and people
had been able to work, let us say full-time, whatever that may
mean, and had also managed to get in some work for their Member
of Parliament, that would then just leave a problem rather than
an actual impropriety?
(Mr Rafferty) Yes.
Shona McIsaac
136. How did you feel about some of the headlines
that were appearing in the Daily Record when you left your
job for the First Minister? I am thinking of headlines that said
"Donald's lying aide sacked". What did you feel when
you read that?
(Mr Rafferty) Oh, there had been so many articles
written. I suppose special advisers were a very unknown breed
to the Scottish press. There had been so many stories written
from my appointment on 17 May until that. Of course I was deeply
hurt by these headlines but life moved on very quickly.
137. Where did you feel some of these stories
came from?
(Mr Rafferty) I have no idea. I have tried to discipline
myself not to speculate.
138. Finally, as regards working for the Labour
Party, whether you are a volunteer, paid member, staff, part-timer,
whatever, you would agree, or I hope you would agree, that it
is not a nine to five, five days a week type of job.
(Mr Rafferty) Absolutely.
139. Especially in the run-up to a campaign?
(Mr Rafferty) Absolutely.
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