Transcription of the tape of an interview
with Ms Suzanne Hilliard held on Friday 7 April 2000
(Patricia Glancy in attendance as a friend)
Ms Filkin: Thank you Ms Hilliard for coming
to see me; it is very good of you and I am sorry to have to bring
you all this way, particularly when I know you are very busy.
I apologise for that and I hope it does not cause you too much
disruption. Have you seen Chris Winslow since this morning?
Ms Hilliard: Yes, I have; I have just had lunch
with him.
Ms Filkin: Did he tell you about the content
of my conversation with him?
Ms Hilliard: No. He said you had sort of asked
questions about me but that was it. Basically he told me not to
bother because he knew I was worried about my exams and coming
down, various issues. But we had lunch and we talked about university
and a lot of different things but no, not the content.
Ms Filkin: Would you start off by taking me
through the work you do for the Labour Party, when you started
working in the Labour Party offices, on what basis you worked
there and at what point you went onto a paid contract?
Ms Hilliard: In the summer of 1998 I was in
Romania doing a charity project and I came back at the end of
August and I went into Delta House, which is in Glasgow, the headquarters
as you know, and I was saying it was a month before I had to go
back to university—I had given up my part-time job in a
clothes shop and was looking for something to cover the time—and
I said I would be willing to do anything but I had previous experience
of media monitoring during the 1997 election campaign. So I started
volunteering in the media monitoring unit.
Ms Filkin: When was that precisely?
Ms Hilliard: That was probably the beginning
of September.
Ms Filkin: That was September 1998.
Ms Hilliard: September 1998, yes.
Ms Filkin: Then what happened.
Ms Hilliard: Basically there was a number of
students going in, going out whenever they had time. The difference
in 1997 was that there was not exactly a media unit as such but
by 1998 they had developed like a structure and it was like a
temporary working and so on and so forth. So it was like I spent
the first week or so just learning how to do that. So I would
go in with Kevin early in the mornings and then as I got to know
what was going on I would go in and cover the lunchtime news broadcasts.
So that probably lasted until I went back to university. Then
when I went back to university—
Ms Filkin: That was as a volunteer.
Ms Hilliard: Yes, it was completely voluntary.
I mean I was never and I have never been employed by the Labour
Party.
Ms Filkin: You had not got any other paid employment
at the time.
Ms Hilliard: At the time, no, in September.
Ms Filkin: You had given up your part-time work.
Ms Hilliard: Yes, I gave that up because I was
going away for two months. I had given up my part-time job which
I had previously in a clothes shop. I did not really want to stay
there anyway, to be honest. So I had given that up. I went back
to university, term started round about 30 September/1 October
and by that time I had sort of deduced that whatever I was looking
after was in the evening so I would go in round about usually
half past three to four o'clock to half past six or half past
seven. I was doing that work throughout that time, going in at
half past three and staying to half past seven. Towards the election,
I would be staying a bit later, because, there were broadcasts
and the Kirsty Wark show and so on, they were on later so you
had to video it; and if there was a transcript needed or anything,
you would stay and do that.
Ms Filkin: I am not quite clear about that.
You went in as a volunteer up until your term started.
Ms Hilliard: No, I was always a volunteer.
Ms Filkin: Then you went in after the term started
as a volunteer.
Ms Hilliard: Yes. I was a volunteer throughout
the time I was there.
Ms Filkin: You worked about how many hours as
a volunteer.
Ms Hilliard: Voluntarily I was sort of Monday
to Friday, about three to four hours a day.
Ms Filkin: When it got nearer the election,
how many hours a day did you work as a volunteer then?
Ms Hilliard: Maybe six or seven.
Ms Filkin: Six or seven as a volunteer.
Ms Hilliard: It really depended what work there
was. If there was a broadcast on, maybe like once a week, these
would be broadcast later and I would obviously stay on. It was
never, like, obviously, do . . .
Ms Filkin: So more than six or seven.
Ms Hilliard: No, no.
Ms Filkin: That sort of time.
Ms Hilliard: That sort; I would stay for a period
of about seven hours.
Ms Filkin: How often a week would you do that
as a volunteer?
Ms Hilliard: How do you mean?
Ms Filkin: Did you do that every day?
Ms Hilliard: Yes, I was committed to the Labour
Party so it was like I volunteered throughout my time at university
and three hours a day was not that much.
Ms Filkin: But when you got to six or seven
hours a day how long were you doing that?
Ms Hilliard: Six or seven hours then we are
talking the two or three weeks before the election and by that
time, you will know, I had actually left university.
Ms Filkin: We shall get onto that and get that
clear. So you are talking about two or three weeks before—
Ms Hilliard: When things were heating up, as
it were.
Ms Filkin: Yes. You were there for longer hours
as a volunteer six or seven hours a day.
Ms Hilliard: No, it was not every day. It was
when it was required and I was not going to say no.
Ms Filkin: Did you go at weekends?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: This was just Monday to Friday.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: Take me through then what was happening
with your university. You went back to university on 1 October
1998. When did you withdraw?
Ms Hilliard: I decided basically end November
that it was impossible. I thought I could do everything and it
was just not happening and I sort of decided that the problem
was, I had been thinking about it, that I would not do myself
justice if I stayed at university and I was concerned as well
and I was working for Dr Reid in the morning and I was just, like,
you know, but I think now by the end of November I probably knew
and I was not going to classes. I remember, I think it was the
second week in December, there was course work due and I knew
essentially I could not do it and even if I did do it, it would
not be of a standard which would be acceptable to me. So I think
I wrote a letter to the university towards the end of November/beginning
December and it was confirmed to me that I could take this year
out by letter at the end of January.
Ms Filkin: When did you take up your studies
again?
Ms Hilliard: October 1999 it would be; yes,
October 1999.
Ms Filkin: Now take me through the details in
relation to the appointment to Dr Reid. You were working as a
volunteer in the office.
Ms Hilliard: Yes. I think. It was probably about
the end of October. Kevin had sort of said to me, I think it was
one time when we went for a drink, and he said—"and
I knew he worked for his Dad—"and he said "my
Dad will be looking for somebody else and you know you have been
coming in blah, blah. So he put me in touch with his Dad and I
went out and met John in Glasgow and we had a chat and, you know,
I said I would think about it but I was quite excited because
it was a really good opportunity so I said yes.
Ms Filkin: What did he say the job would consist
of?
Ms Hilliard: I was basically to take over the
duties Kevin had had, had done previously, which was dealing with
any, you know, sort of press in a sense of keeping an eye on his
local papers, what were the local issues, because there was quite
a lot happening at that time, what was going on and, you know,
keeping an eye on things going on in the Scottish press which
he might be interested in. He would phone me and ask me to tell
him what was happening today etcetera, etcetera.
Ms Filkin: What were you doing in your volunteer
capacity for the Party at the same time?
Ms Hilliard: By this time I was going in round
about half past three/four o'clock to about half six/seven o'clock
and I was covering the Newsdrive programme on Radio Scotland and
the two broadcast news on BBC and ITV.
Ms Filkin: Were you doing different work for
Dr Reid?
Ms Hilliard: The thing was that they were both
media work but the work I was doing for Dr Reid was specific to
Dr Reid. It was his local paper, what were the specific issues,
was there anything I thought he should maybe be saying something
on, about keeping him updated on what was happening, keeping an
eye on anything to do with transport in Scotland, what kind of
things were happening at the time, that sort of idea.
Ms Filkin: Some of the witnesses I have seen
have told me the main reason for Kevin Reid changing onto a full-time
Labour Party contract and asking you to work for his father was
because there was concern that the Conservatives had been attacked
in the press for employing people part time on Party activities
while they were employed as Members' research assistants. Was
that discussed with you at the time?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: Did you know about those concerns?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: Did anybody mention those to you?
Ms Hilliard: Nobody at all; no.
Ms Filkin: When did you first know that there
had been those concerns?
Ms Hilliard: I did not until you told me just
now. I am not aware of any concerns that anybody had. If I could
explain. If there was a food chain involved then I did not know
anything about that.
Ms Filkin: If there was what?
Ms Hilliard: You know, like, I just mean that
I was sort of, I did not know anything like that. That is what
I mean to say. I just was not aware.
Ms Filkin: Has anybody raised that with you
since?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: I understand that there was a fairly
significant conference call between a set of people who worked
in the office, special advisers, etcetera and Mr John Rafferty
in which Chris Winslow raised this concern. Do you know anything
about that?
Ms Hilliard: What concern?
Ms Filkin: This concern about the publicity
about the Conservatives.
Ms Hilliard: I know nothing about conference
calls; no, nothing about conference calls at all.
Ms Filkin: Who in the Labour Party office where
you were working as a volunteer was aware that you had been employed
by Dr Reid?
Ms Hilliard: Kevin obviously. I had spoken to
Kevin about this and apart from that I do not know who else knew.
I certainly never made a point of telling people.
Ms Filkin: When did you do the work for Dr Reid
and where did you do it from?
Ms Hilliard: I did it mainly from my flat in
Glasgow in the mornings.
Ms Filkin: Over that whole period?
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: So you would be listening to the
radio and you were having the press there, were you?
Ms Hilliard: Well, the thing was as well, I
think it was towards the end of November, John had approached
me and said that his constituency assistant, who worked in the
office Hamilton, was very, very unwell and it was looking more
likely that she was going to have to go into hospital. So John
sort of said to me "Look, Suzanne, I've got this mail and
I need somebody to look after it", so basically that was
a more pressing concern for Dr Reid. I sort of spent most of my
time working for John, dealing with his mail.
Ms Filkin: When were you doing what you told
me about the press cuttings and looking at his local press.
Ms Hilliard: I still kept an eye on the local
press throughout the whole period I was employed by him. I did
the press cuttings work in the morning.
Ms Filkin: In your flat.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: Mainly in your flat. How did you
communicate with him? He was presumably either in Edinburgh or
in London. (We shall provide you with a transcript.) You were
doing that from your flat. How did you communicate with Dr Reid?
Ms Hilliard: I would page him or more generally,
he would phone me if there was anything. I would meet him whenever
he was in Scotland. We would meet up and we exchanged all the
mail.
Ms Filkin: Would you be in contact with him
most days?
Ms Hilliard: Not most days; every two or three
days I would see him. It was not every day; every other day.
Ms Filkin: Would you leave messages for him?
How would you do it? I am trying to understand how you worked.
Ms Hilliard: Basically when he brought me up
a whole pile of mail I was trusted to take away all this mail.
You can imagine what an MP's mail bag is like when I was getting
it and maybe on a fortnightly basis I would go, sort out all the
circulars and so on, you can imagine, but if there was anything
I needed to talk to him about I would just page him and if there
was anything he wanted to know about he would more often phone
me on my mobile.
Ms Filkin: How often did that happen?
Ms Hilliard: Every couple of days. It was not
every day; I was not in touch with him every day but maybe every
other day; every couple of days basically.
Ms Filkin: You would communicate in that way.
Do you know anything at all about the period of time before you
started work for Dr Reid when Kevin Reid was working for Dr Reid?
Ms Hilliard: How do you mean?
Ms Filkin: Do you know anything about those
arrangements? Do you know what Kevin Reid was doing?
Ms Hilliard: I took it he was doing the research
some times and anything that John had asked him to do. I know
he was at Delta House in the mornings and he was away eleven/twelve
o'clock. So I think he worked for his Dad in the afternoons.
Ms Filkin: You have given me the impression
that you had no set times working either for the Labour Party
or for Dr Reid and that there was no particular need to compartmentalise
the jobs. Is this accurate?
Ms Hilliard: They were compartmentalised in
the sense that I would work for John in the morning and I was
always in Delta House late afternoon/early evening. If you want
to compartmentalise that, that was how it worked.
Ms Filkin: So in the afternoon you did not work
for Dr Reid, you just worked for him in the morning.
Ms Hilliard: I was trusted. Any time I took
going to meet John and give him all the mail and let him know,
when we had our meetings, you know. I suppose it was just that
some days I worked for him, you know, about six hours, another
day I would maybe do three hours, an hour at the weekend or whatever.
Ms Filkin: But that was at home.
Ms Hilliard: That was at home. The thing was
that when I was dealing with the mail, a lot of it involved reading
all the circulars. There were so many people in Delta House, I
did it from my own flat in peace and quiet.
Ms Filkin: Would you ever be working for Dr
Reid when you were in Delta House?
Ms Hilliard: No; no.
Ms Filkin: Did you always have contact with
Dr Reid in Edinburgh or were you some of the time in London?
Ms Hilliard: No, I worked from my flat in Glasgow.
Ms Filkin: Sorry, Glasgow. But you always had
contact with Dr Reid in Glasgow. You did not come to London at
all.
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: I have several witnesses who have
told me that in fact when you were employed by Dr Reid they understood
you to be full time available for Labour Party work. In fact I
have several witnesses who say that from the Labour Party. Do
you think that is true?
Ms Hilliard: No, it is certainly not true.
Ms Filkin: Why do you think several different
people, who do not appear to have any connection with each other,
say that?
Ms Hilliard: I cannot speak for other people,
but I was in Delta House in the afternoon and early evening and
as far as I am aware nobody knew what I was doing from my own
home and that was where I was doing my work for Dr Reid.
Ms Filkin: In the period of time you have talked
about near the election, when you were working longer hours for
the Party, I understand from one of my witnesses that you communicated
to him that you were under extreme pressure, that you were working
extremely long hours for the Party. Is this untrue?
Ms Hilliard: I was working sometimes quite late
at night and sometimes on my own and the media monitoring was
quite a pressurised job in the sense that TV and radio are important
and you have to make sure you get it right. So yes, I was under
pressure in that sense.
Ms Filkin: Were you working very long hours?
Ms Hilliard: Not particularly long hours. Everybody
was working more for two or three weeks before an election campaign
everybody was doing more but we were not particularly long not
compared to what other people were doing.
Ms Filkin: How many hours were there?
Ms Hilliard: I said to you I was still going
in maybe sometimes about two and maybe sometimes doing about eight,
sometimes going in about four and staying to about ten when the
late programmes were on.
Ms Filkin: So you are saying it is not true
when somebody has said to me that you would have had no spare
time in which you could work on Dr Reid's work at that time.
Ms Hilliard: Sorry?
Ms Filkin: Somebody has said to me that certainly
in the last few weeks running up to the election you claimed you
had no spare time and you appeared to have no spare time because
you were in the office very, very long hours. Are you saying that
is untrue?
Ms Hilliard: Yes; yes, I am. I am saying I never
said that. It is not the case because I always had my mornings
free to do my work for Dr Reid which I took very seriously.
Ms Filkin: Could you now talk me through what
you know of the arrangements for employing Chris Winslow? What
was your understanding of the way in which his time was split
between his research role and his work for the Party?
Ms Hilliard: The vast majority of time I was
volunteering in Delta House I was going in only in the afternoons
and sometimes Chris was there and sometimes he was not.
Ms Filkin: Did you know about his employment
arrangements as to who employed him?
Ms Hilliard: Do you mean his research position
for Mr Maxton?
Ms Filkin: Both.
Ms Hilliard: Yes, I knew about his research
job with Mr Maxton.
Ms Filkin: When did you know about that?
Ms Hilliard: I could not honestly tell you.
I do not know; I just knew; I just did.
Ms Filkin: Was this before you started work
as a volunteer?
Ms Hilliard: I do not know, I might have done.
I honestly could not tell you. I do not know. It was not something
which sticks out in my mind.
Ms Filkin: You knew he worked for Mr Maxton.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: Did you know he worked for the Labour
Party?
Ms Hilliard: Yes, he was there. I do not know
his contractual arrangements.
Ms Filkin: Did you know they changed at any
point?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: Did he talk to you about the time
when he got more hours?
Ms Hilliard: No. Although Chris and I are friends
we never really discussed anything like that.
Ms Filkin: Let us go back to Kevin Reid. Were
you aware of any evidence to suggest that during the time he was
being paid as Dr Reid's research assistant he was actually working
full time for the Party?
Ms Hilliard: No; not at all. During September
I was going in at lunchtimes while Kevin was usually going away
by then. During October I was going in by half past three to four
o'clock and Kevin was not there.
Ms Filkin: Were you aware when you started working
for Dr Reid that the rules in relation to your research salary
meant that you could not use hours when you were paid for research
work to do party political work?
Ms Hilliard: I think so. I do not think anybody
had ever said that to me, but I am aware, I am sure, I know, you
know.
Ms Filkin: Do you think this rule was known
widely in the Party headquarters? Were people aware of this?
Ms Hilliard: I cannot speak for other people's
knowledge of parliamentary procedures.
Ms Filkin: Did Mr Rowley ever mention it to
you?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: One of my witnesses says that you
said to him that you had, and I quote, "been taken on by
the Party with Maxton's money". Is this true?
Ms Hilliard: Maxton's money?
Ms Filkin: Yes.
Ms Hilliard: No, I worked for . . .
my employment with John Maxton was . . . I do not know
that this has anything to do with . . . I worked for Mr
Maxton July, over the summer before I went back to university.
Ms Filkin: We shall think about that in a minute.
You are saying that while you were employed by Mr Maxton you did
not—
Ms Hilliard: I was still doing a bit of volunteering
but not—
Ms Filkin: Talk me through the employment by
Mr Maxton. What were those days?
Ms Hilliard: It must have been about June sometime.
Ms Filkin: June? Which year?
Ms Hilliard: Last year, 1999.
Ms Filkin: Until?
Ms Hilliard: September 1999. It was basically
just a summer job because I was going back to university.
Ms Filkin: What work were you doing for him?
Ms Hilliard: I was working from his house in
Hamilton, just doing his constituency work. He was in Arran for
part of the time, so I was just keeping an eye on things.
Ms Filkin: When you had your job with Dr Reid,
going back to the campaign, and you were working as a volunteer
for the Labour Party, were you required to keep any check of the
hours you were working for the Labour Party?
Ms Hilliard: No. I was a volunteer but I did
go in when I said I would be there. I did take it seriously. But
no, I never kept a diary or anything.
Ms Filkin: Did you get any bonus payment from
the Labour Party?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: Are you prepared to say, on oath
if necessary, with all the perjury things which come into play
when you swear to something on oath, are you prepared to say,
on oath if necessary, if the Standards and Privileges Committee
ask you, that you have never worked on Labour Party business or
campaign or been paid during hours you were paid by the Fees Office?
Ms Hilliard: Yes, I am.
Ms Filkin: Talk me through how you created your
statement. Did you take advice on your statement to me?
Ms Hilliard: If I could explain some of the
background, what happened was that I was in my boyfriend's flat
in January some time and I received a phone call from a journalist
who was making accusations towards me. I asked him how he got
the phone number, because I did not live in this flat and I was
very concerned. I was really upset, to be quite honest.
Ms Filkin: I am sure.
Ms Hilliard: I was crying actually and I phoned
my Mum and Dad and my boyfriend obviously and I spoke to Dr Reid
and said I was really worried. I was quite upset about it all.
Dr Reid suggested I take advice and he got a lawyer to call me.
Ms Filkin: What was the name of the lawyer?
Ms Hilliard: Gordon Dalyell.
Ms Filkin: So it was Dr Reid who arranged that.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: Who was Gordon Dalyell? What was
he? Was he a solicitor or barrister?
Ms Hilliard: Yes, he was a solicitor.
Ms Filkin: Does he work for the Labour Party?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: Who has paid for the advice you have
had?
Ms Hilliard: I have not had the bill so far,
but I will probably get one.
Ms Filkin: Have you discussed fees with him?
Ms Hilliard: No, I have not discussed fees with
him, no.
Ms Filkin: Did you have any expectation of paying
the fees?
Ms Hilliard: Probably. I went to see him, so
. . .
Ms Filkin: Surely you would have discussed fees
with him before you took advice, if you were going to pay the
fees.
Ms Hilliard: I never really considered it. I
have not spoken to him about legal fees. At the time I was just
so worried.
Ms Filkin: Tell me what you were worried about.
Ms Hilliard: I was worried because there were
stories in the paper. I had a journalist phoning me somewhere
where I do not live. I was really, really upset. It also happened
the day before my university 15,000 word dissertation was handed
in. I was in a state. I was upset that somebody was saying this.
I was genuinely upset.
Ms Filkin: So you went to see this solicitor
and it was fixed up by Dr Reid.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: Did you go alone? Were there any
other researchers?
Ms Hilliard: Yes, I went by myself.
Ms Filkin: Did you discuss the matter with any
other researchers at the time?
Ms Hilliard: Obviously Chris and I were friends
and I sort of said this phonecall had happened and I said John
was going to put me in touch with somebody and that person happened
to be Gordon and I told Chris the name of the solicitor I was
going to see. I think from there he fixed up to go to see Gordon
himself.
Ms Filkin: I am sorry. I cannot remember what
you said. Does Gordon Dalyell advise the Labour Party?
Ms Hilliard: No, not as far as I know.
Ms Filkin: So you went to see him. How did you
agree the statement that you sent to me? Did he send you a draft?
What happened?
Ms Hilliard: No, they were my words. We had
a conversation and he typed them up and that was it.
Ms Filkin: He sent them to you for you to sign
and send off.
Ms Hilliard: I think so, yes. To be honest I
cannot remember exactly but they are my words I said at the time
and which were typed up.
Ms Filkin: I am not suggesting that, I am just
trying to understand the process. Could you try to recall that?
Ms Hilliard: I think it was sent to me and I
signed it.
Ms Filkin: Since that, could you run through
with me with whom you have discussed this inquiry?
Ms Hilliard: Obviously my parents, because they
were concerned when I phoned them very upset. My partner, my parents
just people. I was, like, a bit upset about the timing obviously
and that was what my main worry has been about all this, you know,
the university.
Ms Filkin: Have you discussed it with Dr Reid
since you asked for his advice and he sent you to a lawyer?
Ms Hilliard: I spoke with Dr Reid on the phone
yesterday.
Ms Filkin: Yes. What did he say to you?
Ms Hilliard: He just said, "All the best
for tomorrow and go in, tell the truth and everything".
Ms Filkin: He knew you were coming. How did
he know that? Did you tell him?
Ms Hilliard: I must have done.
Ms Filkin: So you have had various conversations
with him.
Ms Hilliard: Well, a few, not—
Ms Filkin: What has been the content of those
conversations?
Ms Hilliard: He just said not to worry about
it and put me in touch with Gordon and so on and so forth. Nothing
sinister about the conversations.
Ms Filkin: I did not imply they were sinister,
I wanted to know the content.
Ms Hilliard: He phoned me just to make sure
I was okay really and he knew that this was a bad time and all
the best.
Ms Filkin: What about the other conversations
you have had?
Ms Hilliard: I have only spoken to him two or
three times.
Ms Filkin: What did you say and what did he
say?
Ms Hilliard: To be honest with you, I really
cannot remember. He would phone and say, "Is everything okay?
Nothing to worry about", you know, just things like that,
nothing else.
Ms Filkin: Have you talked to Mr Maxton?
Ms Hilliard: I saw Mr Maxton last weekend.
Ms Filkin: Tell me what you talked about?
Ms Hilliard: He just mentioned it, that was
all. I am a friend of the Maxton family so it was not the only
thing we talked about.
Ms Filkin: I am sure. Just tell me what you
said about the inquiry and what Mr Maxton said about the inquiry?
Ms Hilliard: It is up to Mr Maxton. I am sure
you know Mr Maxton's opinions and I am not here to speak for Mr
Maxton. I think he was a bit concerned about me having to find
the money for the plane fare, coming down quite so close to my
exams, but that was really the conversation that we had last weekend.
Ms Filkin: Did you at any time talk with him
about what your replies were going to be?
Ms Hilliard: Not at all.
Ms Filkin: Did you with Dr Reid?
Ms Hilliard: No.
Ms Filkin: Either before you went to the solicitor
or . . .
Ms Hilliard: To either person?
Ms Hilliard: No; not discuss.
Ms Filkin: Thank you very much indeed. It was
very good of you to answer my questions. What I now need to ask
you, if I may, is that you have been very good and answered my
questions, but I now have to ask you whether you would reflect
and see whether there is any other information which you ought
to give me, so that I have a total picture of what happened, so
that nothing is kept from me or the Committee. Could I ask you
to think about that and whether there is anything else you think
I ought to know.
Ms Hilliard: No, I do not think so. I think
we have covered everything.
Ms Filkin: Could I ask when you go away from
here, I shall obviously send you a copy of the tape, if you would
correct it and send it back to me, if you would and if there is
anything in there which you regard as personal or private and
you would like me to try to keep quiet, perhaps you would indicate
that.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: I should be grateful if you could
do that as soon as you could.
Ms Hilliard: Yes.
Ms Filkin: If after you have left here, when
you are thinking about our conversation, and you now know what
I need to know, if there is anything you think I should know,
could I ask you to tell me?
Ms Hilliard: Certainly.
Ms Filkin: Last question. Are there other people
who you think were around at the time, who have information, who
will be able to confirm to me what you are saying one way or another?
Ms Hilliard: I do not know. No, I do not think
so. I obviously do not know who you have talked with.
Ms Filkin: I wonder when you get home whether
you would send me copies of your phone bills throughout the period
of time you were working for Dr Reid?
Ms Hilliard: I do not have the phone any more
and I do not have the phone bills.
Ms Filkin: Perhaps you would get them for me
from BT. You can get itemised phone bills and you can get duplicates
of them. I obviously ask you for those rather than getting them
myself. Could I ask you to do that for me?
Ms Hilliard: Okay; fine.
Ms Filkin: Thank you very much. If there is
any other documentation which could support what you have told
me, because obviously that is why I am asking for that, perhaps
you would let me have it. Is that all right?
Ms Hilliard: Yes; certainly.
Ms Filkin: I am sorry that has been rather long-winded.
Best wishes for your finals. When do they start?
Ms Hilliard: Second of May.
Ms Filkin: My youngest is starting her finals
on 2 or 3 May, so you are both in the same boat. Best wishes.
I hope you are successful and I look forward to receiving your
phone bill.
(Corrected by witness 18 April 2000 (see
footnotes))
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