PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE RELATING
TO THE REPORT
WEDNESDAY 3 JULY 2002
Members present:
Mr Barry Sheerman, in the Chair
| Mr John Baron | Ms Meg Munn
|
| Mr David Chaytor | Mr Kerry Pollard
|
| Valerie Davey | Jonathan Shaw
|
| Jeff Ennis | Mr Mark Simmonds
|
| Paul Holmes | Mr Andrew Turner
|
The Committee deliberated.
[Adjourned till to-morrow at half-past One
o'clock.
THURSDAY 4 JULY 2002
Members present:
Mr Barry Sheerman, in the Chair
| Mr John Baron | Ms Meg Munn
|
| Mr David Chaytor | Jonathan Shaw
|
| Valerie Davey | Mr Mark Simmonds
|
| Jeff Ennis | Mr Andrew Turner
|
| Paul Holmes | |
Draft Report [Post-16 Student Support], proposed by the Chairman,
brought up and read.
Ordered, That the Report be read a second time, paragraph
by paragraph.
Paragraphs 1 to 32 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 33 read, amended, and agreed to.
Paragraphs 34 to 42 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 43 read as follows:
"To adopt the Scottish Executive's system of student finance
in England would be extremely costly (the cost of abolishing fees
alone was estimated to be £270 million in cash terms for
2002-03) and would divert resources away from other priority spending
areas. We do not recommend the adoption of the Scottish system
for England."
Motion made, to leave out paragraph 43 and insert the following
new paragraph:
"We believe that the findings of the Cubie report and the
system of student finance subsequently introduced by the Scottish
Executive have much to commend them and are worthy of serious
consideration in reviewing the system of student finance in England."—(Paul
Holmes.)
Motion made, and Question put, That the new paragraph be read
a second time.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 1 | Noes, 8 |
| Paul Holmes | Mr John Baron
|
| Mr David Chaytor |
| Valerie Davey |
| Jeff Ennis |
| Ms Meg Munn |
| Jonathan Shaw |
| Mr Mark Simmonds |
| Mr Andrew Turner |
Paragraph 43 agreed to.
Paragraph 44 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 45 read as follows:
"In February 2002 Ms Jane Davidson AM, the Minister for Education
and Lifelong Learning at the National Assembly for Wales, announced
the introduction of means-tested grants for Welsh students in
higher education, wherever they choose to study in the UK. Grants
of up to £1,500 per year will be targeted at students from
the poorest families. Tuition fees and the student loans system
are to be retained. We were not persuaded to recommend the adoption
of the Welsh approach for England."
An Amendment made.
Another Amendment proposed, in line 5, to leave out from the "word
"We" to the end of the paragraph and insert the words
"believe that the Rees Report and the system of student finance
subsequently introduced by the National Assembly for Wales have
much to commend them and are worthy of serious consideration in
reviewing the system of student finance in England."—(Paul
Holmes.)
Question put, That Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 1 | Noes, 8 |
| Paul Holmes | Mr John Baron
|
| Mr David Chaytor |
| Valerie Davey |
| Jeff Ennis |
| Ms Meg Munn |
| Jonathan Shaw |
| Mr Mark Simmonds |
| Mr Andrew Turner |
Paragraph, as amended, agreed to.
Paragraph 46 read, amended, and agreed to.
Paragraphs 47 to 61 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 62 read as follows:
"We are satisfied that it is entirely appropriate for the
individual beneficiaries of higher education to make a contribution
towards its costs, and we are persuaded that tuition fees are
an essential and progressive part of this process. We recommend
that the Government should retain a system of contributions to
the costs of tuition and that the Government should keep under
continuous review not only whether the maximum means-tested contribution
should be increased but also whether the thresholds for means-testing
of contributions should be altered."
Amendment proposed, in line 1, to leave out from the word "We"
to the end of the paragraph and insert the words "believe
that a system of up front payment of any proportion of tuition
fees is a counter productive deterrent to higher education, as
evidenced in the Cubie and Rees Reports and by the sharp increase
in the applications to Scottish universities since the abolition
of tuition fees there."—(Paul Holmes.)
Question put, That the Amendment be made.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 1 | Noes, 8 |
| Paul Holmes | Mr John Baron
|
| Mr David Chaytor |
| Valerie Davey |
| Jeff Ennis |
| Ms Meg Munn |
| Jonathan Shaw |
| Mr Mark Simmonds |
| Mr Andrew Turner |
Paragraph agreed to.
Paragraphs 63 to 67 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 68 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 69 to 100 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 101 read, amended and agreed to.
Paragraphs 102 to 114 read and agreed to.
Paragraph 115 read as follows:
"Much heat and little light has so far been shed on the top-up
fees debate. There is a serious debate to be had on fees policy
and the Government should not shrink from evaluating the costs
and benefits of a differentiated fees strategy."
Motion made, to leave out paragraph 115 and insert the following
new paragraph:
"The introduction of 'top-up' fees would be likely to exacerbate
the existence of a clear two tier system of higher education with
an 'Ivy League' of elite institutions drawing their students in
increasing disproportion from higher socio-economic groups. This
would run counter to the Government"s declarations of intent
in terms of widening access to lower socio-economic groups."—(Paul
Holmes.)
Motion made, and Question put, That the new paragraph be read
a second time.
The Committee divided.
| Ayes, 1 | Noes, 8 |
| Paul Holmes | Mr John Baron
|
| Mr David Chaytor |
| Valerie Davey |
| Jeff Ennis |
| Ms Meg Munn |
| Jonathan Shaw |
| Mr Mark Simmonds |
| Mr Andrew Turner |
Paragraph 115 agreed to.
Paragraphs 116 to 127 read and agreed to.
Resolved, That the Report be the Sixth Report of the Committee
to the House.
Ordered, That the Chairman do make the Report to the House.
Ordered, That the provisions of Standing Order No. 134
(Select committees (reports) be applied to the Report.
Several Memoranda were ordered to be appended to the Minutes of
Evidence.
Ordered, That the Appendices to the Minutes of Evidence
taken before the Committee be reported to the House.—(The
Chairman.)
Several Memoranda were ordered to be reported to the House.
| 
