Examination of Witnesses (Questions 60
- 66)
TUESDAY 30 APRIL 2002
MR FERGAL
KEANE OBE AND
MR RICHARD
DOWDEN
60. This is another pressure then.
(Mr Dowden) It is not just bad government it is a
weather problem as well.
61. Exacerbating what is happening in Zimbabwe.
(Mr Dowden) Yes; indeed.
62. And potentially South Africa.
(Mr Dowden) And potentially South Africa.
Mr Pope
63. It seems hopeless, does it not? If we do
not want to direct food via the Mugabe regime and their armed
forces, the only external organisation which might be able to
do it are the South African armed forces, but I must say that
if I were Mugabe, I would not fancy 10,000 or 20,000 or however
many South African troops stationed in my country. It is not going
to happen, is it?
(Mr Keane) No, but there are creative ways. It is
never hopeless. That is the first thing I would say to you, that
it is never hopeless in Africa. Too much of the way we have viewed
Africa has been through this prism of hopelessness. It is not.
If it is not hopeless for the brave activists who are going out
as we seek, as we sit here safely in London, knocking door to
door, collecting human rights information, it is not hopeless
for the rest of us. There are creative ways it can be done through
SADC for example and other groups. It is possible and Mbeki in
particular has the kind of leverage which would make it possible.
64. He has the leverage.
(Mr Keane) He has. It does not have to be South African
troops parading all over Zimbabwe. I do not believe that is going
to happen, but there is the kind of logistical infrastructure
which Mr Mugabe's neighbours have, the SADC countries have, which
could be used.
65. He has the leverage, he has the capability,
but it is not happening.
(Mr Keane) That is where you, where the Government
and politicians come in.
66. People are starving, it is a terrible situation
and there is a drought. How much of this in your estimation is
due to the drought and how much of it is due to the way in which
the taking over of the farms has been badly handled and has impacted
adversely on agricultural output?
(Mr Dowden) My impression is that this year it is
largely drought. It is hard to put a figure on it. Next year is
instability because people just do not know whether to plant or
not. The big commercial farms are being expropriated and they
are not going to invest in that, so they are not going to plant.
Next year it will be political.
Chairman: Even this afternoon, you may have
seen the latest news, "Zimbabwe has declared a state of disaster
as worsening food shortages threaten widespread famine. The disaster
declaration, which is effective for three months, will give President
Robert Mugabe the authority to order `extraordinary measures'
to deliver food to those in need". "It allows aid agencies
to set up emergency programmes for the estimated 7.8 million of
the country's 13 million population in need of urgent food aid".
That is some indication of the scale of the disaster facing the
suffering people of Zimbabwe. I know you both will seek to raise
that on our consciousness. May I thank you both? You probably
know that we are meeting Baroness Amos on 14 May and this has
been an extremely helpful background for the Committee in allowing
us to prepare. If there are any other matters which you would
like to send to us, we should be very happy to receive them. In
the meantime, may I thank you both very sincerely indeed on behalf
of the Committee.
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