Examination of Witnesses (Questions 160-162)
MR JOHN
STOKER AND
MR SIMON
GILLESPIE
WEDNESDAY 28 NOVEMBER 2001
160. It is difficult to monitor how long the
investigations take?
(Mr Gillespie) It has proved difficult because of
the information systems that the Commission has in place which
we have to reprogramme and rejig to make this happen. We are doing
that because we recognise that it is a problem. For investigations
work it is very clear, and you will see at the beginning of every
inquiry report on the web site there is a start point for the
inquiry and a finish point for the inquiry. I am referring to
a lot of the other cases going through the system. I review the
longer standing inquiries myself to try and make sure we have
got direction. There are some good reasons why some of these cases
are open a long time, court proceedings being a prime example
where we are not in the driving seat and we have to accept it.
We do actively review the caseloads and do exactly the same process
but obviously on a sample basis with a much larger volume of work
going through than the normal casework stream of charities' work.
Mr Gardiner
161. Can I just ask you, it comes out of the
case that you are dealing with that I referred to, obviously there
are a number of public bodies, local authorities amongst them,
who are, not to put too fine a point on it, strapped for cash
and they are looking at creative accounting as a way of generating
money to do the sorts of things that they want to do, often very
laudably. Are you aware of a substantial body of charities that
have been set up by such bodies as local authorities in order
to access funds in this way and are you content that all of them
are operating clearly within their charitable remit rather than
the shady area between what is a local authority obligation and
the charity?
(Mr Gillespie) I think there are probably three things
I would like to say in response to that, the first of which is
that our registration staff are very well aware of the potential
difficulties involved here and they scrutinise applications where
they think this may occur with particular rigour. We are not consciously
aware of putting a charity onto the register where we know that
it is going to be an issue to start off with. We put arrangements
in place to try and make sure that the two sides are disengaged
and there are clear guidelines. Secondly, we have become aware
in a number of cases, the most obvious one you can read about
on the web site is Stratford College and Guild Estates. The trustees
of the charity were Stratford Town Council which was clearly using
income from the charity to provide statutory functions. We are
very hot on that issue and Stratford Town Council knew exactly
our views on that and we have followed through the actions to
put the charity and the town council straight. As far as guaranteeing
that there is nobody else on the register that is doing that,
clearly I could not give that guarantee but our monitoring process
is designed to look very closely at the relationships between
charities and other organisations. It is one of the things that
may trigger one of our accountants to have a look at the accounts
and reports. In answer to your main question am I aware of a body
of charities that has been set up like that or are behaving in
that way, the answer is I am not aware of a body like that, but
we are very alert to the possibility.
162. I see ******, the charity dealt with in
case 2, grew very rapidly from a small beginning in the 1980s
until it had a turnover of £700,000 in the late1990s. What
percentage of its turnover was accounted for by administration?
(Mr Stoker) I think that we would need to give you
a note on that, Chairman. I could not give you an answer off the
top of my head. [10]
Chairman: Thank you very much. You obviously
have a very difficult job and we wish you well. Thank you for
answering our questions.
10 Note by witness: Based on the charity's accounts
to 31 December 2000. £41,385 out of £318,266-some 13
per cent. Back
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