Examination of Witnesses(Questions 40-42)
MR GRAEME
MILLAR, MR
MARTYN EVANS
AND MS
TRISHA MCAULEY
WEDNESDAY 30 OCTOBER 2002
Mr Eric Joyce
40. I understand you have either done or are
doing a survey of consumer awareness of rights, I am sorry, I
am not sure if you have finished it or you are still doing it,
but is there a view emerging, or is there an established view
on the state of consumer knowledge?
(Mr Evans) The fieldwork has been completed. The first
report is actually going to our Council a week on Friday, which
does not actually have any policy conclusions in it at the moment.
It is setting out what consumers' knowledge of their rights is.
And what we have reported to Council I can report to you is, we
are very pleased with the level of consumers' knowledge of their
rights in Scotland; it is high. We were worried, there was some
evidence that it might have been lower in Scotland than it might
have been elsewhere in the United Kingdom, that is from our evidence
and it is quite robust; that is not the case. In fact, there is
some evidence that your better-off consumers actually have expectations
about their rights which are in excess of the legal rights, which
I think is healthy, that is a demanding, confident consumer. What
we have also found though, of course, is, those who have the least
knowledge of their rights are those who are most disadvantaged
in society. So if you have a low educational qualification, or
you have none, or you are over a certain age, over about 70, or
so, there is a whole range of reasons which are consistent with
issues of deprivation, you have the least knowledge of your rights
there. Now that is a very important finding for us. You also have,
from the evidence, the least access to redress organisations,
you have least knowledge about them and access to them. So we
have got to be very careful, when we use our findings in policy,
to make sure that we do not just jump on a consumer education
bandwagon, because I think that was a simple answer, but a lot
of those people will not be those who you could simply ask to
read material, or absorb their knowledge. And so I think the policy
conclusions, which we will work up after our research is approved
by our Council, and we will deliver some time in February, will
be very important for us on that area. But I am pleased to say,
we were worried that there was some indication that consumers
in Scotland had less knowledge. The one thing that we do find
is that they think they have fewer problems. If they have a problem,
they are equally as likely to complain about it, but in terms
of the UK averages, they think they have fewer consumer problems
now. This is a struggle for us, because do we say we have better
goods and services in Scotland, on that evidence, or do we say,
for some reason, consumers are less likely to think they have
got a problem? So we are struggling with that analysis and working
with MORI, who did the work with us, to say, what can we legitimately
conclude, and I think we will probably have to leave that rather
mute until some further research is done. But, I think, a very
important conclusion aspect, and the only really significant UK
differential.
(Mr Millar) I think, Chairman, it gives us an opportunity,
as we analyse it and think it through next week, it will come
out in February, to say, well, rather than trying to address the
consumer education up front, because everyone says, "Just
educate the consumer," that is much more easily said and
not easily done. But there are other areas we work on, in terms
of influencing the curriculum in education, certainly at late
primary school and secondary education, where if our children
start to understand their rights and how they can articulate them
then the children in deprived communities, where their parents
have low incomes and maybe, educationally, have not been able
to get to the standards that others have been able to get to,
often the children are a wonderful vehicle, to draw to their attention
the rights that they do have, because children catch on very quickly.
And we found that in food safety aspects, etc., where you educate
parents through children. So some of the conclusions that we come
to might, in the ways forward, roll that in. But, obviously, these
documents will be available to you, as soon as they come out and
we will make sure that the database is comprehensive so you get
them; you will have to read them, but you will get them.
Ann McKechin
41. We note that you are currently researching
the experience of direct payments, and you have indicated that,
by and large, it involves a vulnerable group of service users.
What information about direct payments has your current research
suggested, or any conclusions made from it?
(Mr Evans) We have not, because what we have done
in the past is, about four years ago, we looked at direct payments
and found a huge variety in what direct payments were asked and
what we thought were value for money. And there has been a process
by which the Executive has gone through, where they asked COSLA,
the association of local authorities in Scotland, to give advice
to local authorities; we were not included in that process of
giving advice to local authorities. So what we are now going to
go back and say is, how effective has that advice been, how clear
are the users of services about what the costs are and what they
are for, and are they related clearly to what is being provided.
Now I was actually having a discussion on Monday about how far
we are down that line. Our workplan is for the year, and we are
just in the beginning of starting that, so when we have completed
it I will be delighted and I will ensure that you get a copy.
Chairman
42. Can I thank you very much for your attendance
this morning, and for your very full and frank answers to us.
Can I just correct something I said at the beginning. The uncorrected
transcript is now unlikely to appear on the Net before next Tuesday,
and this is due to pressure of work at the production end. But
thank you again, and I apologise for fewer Members than normal
at the Committee this morning, but being a Member of Parliament
often means that you are required to do two things at one time,
and this morning we have had two debates in Westminster Hall,
both led by members of this Committee, in which others have been
taking part. So I do apologise for that, but it is just the nature
of the beast. Once again, thank you very much for your attendance.
(Mr Millar) Chairman, if I can just say, on behalf
of the Scottish Consumer Council, it is a wonderful opportunity
and it is one which we should maybe try to take up more often;
but certainly we will keep up, in terms of the membership of this
Committee, on an individual basis, contacts as we go forward,
because the point was well made and we recognise that there are
still some issues about being able to try to find the resources
to connect with Members in Westminster, never mind us maybe connecting
also with our MEPs within the European Parliament environment.
But thank you very much for the opportunity, it has been very
interesting for us, and we will go away and group ourselves somewhere
else and say we should have been saying something different, but
never mind. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you very much, Mr Millar.
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