Select Committee on Scottish Affairs Minutes of Evidence

Examination of Witnesses (Questions 1 - 19)




  1. Good morning, gentlemen. Can I welcome you to the Scottish Affairs Committee and our investigation into broadcasting in Scotland. We are very glad to have you here this morning. Can I ask you for the record to introduce yourselves, and if there is any short submission you may wish to make, can you let us have it at that time.

  (Sir Robert Smith) Thank you, Chairman. My name is Robert Smith. I am the Chairman of Broadcasting Council for Scotland and the Scottish Governor of the BBC.
  (Mr Jenkins) I am Blair Jenkins. I am head of News and Current Affairs at BBC Scotland.
  (Mr McCormick) John McCormick, Controller of BBC Scotland.
  (Mr Mosey) Roger Mosey, Head of Television News for BBC UK.
  (Sir Robert Smith) Chairman, we do have a short opening statement. If I could say something and then John McCormick briefly thereafter. First of all we are also pleased to be here. I think it is about two years ago that we came before you and we spoke about the wider activities in the BBC. I was actually appointed as Governor and Chairman of the Broadcasting Council in August 1999. It was shortly after the major debate in the BBC about how we should actually handle news and current affairs post devolution. It was also just as the Scottish Parliament was starting up in August 1999. The Governors developed a strategy for producing the news and current affairs at that time and the job of the Broadcasting Council really has been to monitor and assess that. We do that in several ways: we have monthly reports on progress; we have the Head of News and Current Affairs come to see us once a year and explain what he is doing; and this year the whole of the BBC is looking at news and current affairs and sport as special activities where we are doing some detailed research. The Broadcasting Council having assessed what we have done since 1998 is broadly satisfied with the production of news and current affairs programmes. I think that is reflected in viewing, listening and also online statistics. There are, however, areas where we have to remain vigilant: the split between Holyrood and Westminster and Brussels; the perhaps occasional "central belt" feel that could creep into Reporting Scotland—and it is not so much central belt Glasgow/Edinburgh, but the bit between those two that occasionally we are accused of not paying full attention to; and finally, I think, the junction between Newsnight and Newsnight Scotland, which was a major issue two years ago. We think there have been huge improvements since then but it is a difficult thing to handle because, for example, since September 11 we have dropped a lot of opt-outs to Newsnight Scotland because we have had to follow some big international news stories. The Broadcasting Council has been very impressed with the cooperation between Scotland and London in arranging the running order, the correct handling of areas like transport, health, education, land reform, which are properly areas for which the Scottish Parliament has legislative responsibility. That, frankly, did not happen adequately before devolution. There was not enough contact between Scotland and London. I would just end by saying that the Broadcasting Council is going to research and assess whether this package, that the Governors put in place in 1998 and began to be implemented in 1999, is actually satisfying Scottish audiences. The right time we believe to do this is at the end of the first Scottish Parliament in May 2003. When we look at that, we will take into account the fact that digital has become a fact of life for a lot of people, where people have choice, in finding news stories and the fact that online we now have 1.6 million hits as against about one-tenth of that last year and by 18 months from now that will be even more developed. When we have the results of that investigation, after May 2003 I will discuss that with fellow Governors and we will decide what changes, if any, we feel have to be implemented.
  (Mr McCormick) Chairman, I would just like to say a word about the wider context in which we are having this discussion this morning, the wider context in which you find BBC Scotland, because I know of the members of the Committee's interest in that. At the moment we are undergoing an historic rate of expansion with BBC Scotland's activities. Just a couple of figures could illustrate that. Our financial year ends 31 March. In the financial year ending March 1999, for example, our turnover, our investment into programme making production in Scotland was £94 million. In the financial year just coming to an end, it is now £140 million. Next year that will increase to £160 million. That represents an important investment in the wider community of Scotland, which passes through to the benefit of communities across the country, and it means in this two-year period the creation of 116 key jobs within BBC Scotland alone. That expansion is made up in a number of different ways. Firstly, and importantly, as Sir Robert said, the £10 million of additional investment in our journalism following the creation of the Scottish Parliament, and we will be discussing that in detail with you today. But the expansion has been on other fronts as well. There has been a dramatic expansion in the programmes we make for the UK networks, mainly on television but also with some expansion on radio as well. We are now making much more drama, entertainment, factual and children's programmes for the UK audience than ever before. In fact, in children's programmes, to take that specific example, BBC Scotland is the second centre for the production of children's programmes for BBC, making some 20 per cent of the totality of it. So we will be a major provider for the new digital channels, the two children's channels, which open next month, in February. Then, when BBC FOUR opens in March the arts and documentaries' channel, that will give us the benefit of a number of new commissions. And if the Government gives the go-ahead to BBC THREE, the channel aimed at younger people, we will be one of its main suppliers of programmes, programmes made in Scotland for that audience. So there is expansion in news and current affairs, there is expansion in the network programmes across the board, and also there has been expansion in the funding for programmes made specifically for audiences in Scotland with an additional £14 million investment—that is annual recurring investment. In the coming year that will mean a broader range of entertainment programmes than we have ever produced before, landmark series and, notably, the subject of much comment in the press, I have it written down here as a twice-weekly drama series for 52 weeks a year, but it is a "soap", reflecting contemporary current issues in Scotland. To produce that, we have developed a site in Dumbarton as the production location. A very exciting project: a mini-Los Angeles in Dumbarton, film sets and studios being created there, and again creating jobs, many of them targeted at people in the local community. As Sir Robert said, another important area of expansion has been in our online services. An example of that: a couple of years ago we were employing five people producing our online services, now it is more than 50. So we are expanding on many different fronts and this business growth comes together in our planning for our new headquarters on the Pacific Quay site in Glasgow, planned to open in 2005. That development is a statement of the BBC's commitment to Scotland. It gives an opportunity to create something unique in the United Kingdom, a digital media village on the banks of the Clyde and the site of the garden festival. With the BBC, Science Centre and like- minded companies, individuals, agencies and facilities' houses having the opportunity to locate near each other—something we have never been able to do before: it is a very small industry in Scotland but it is dispersed—we now have the opportunity to bring together and co-locate in an area of Glasgow where we feel we can bring some economic benefit and where the agencies and ourselves can benefit from the synergies of working closely together, where we can create something which is quite literally bigger than the sum of the parts. It is a development which should ensure that Scotland is well placed to seize the opportunities presented by digital technology and to stay ahead of the field in what is a very, very competitive marketplace. So, Chair, it is a story of expansion, job creation and more opportunities than ever before for broadcasters in Scotland.

  2. May I just say at this point that after the formal questions there will be an opportunity for you to add anything you want. May I kick off by asking you to expand on the effects of devolution in the structure of news and current affairs broadcasting in Scotland. Sir Robert spoke, for example, about the Newsnight opt-out. I wondered if you have had any feedback from the public about the Newsnight opt-out. For example, recently I did the Newsnight programme with Kirsty Wark from Westminster. Although we saw Kathy Jamieson in London talking about the First Minister situation in Scotland, my constituents in Paisley were not able to see me because of the opt-out. I could be seen in London, I could be seen in the whole of England and in Wales but I could not be seen in my own constituency. I think everybody round this table has had representations about that and I wondered if there had been any representations to you about the opt-out.
  (Sir Robert Smith) Here is the man who is there at the time of switch over each night.
  (Mr Jenkins) I think, Chairman, it is true to say we have had some representations on the subject of Newsnight and Newsnight Scotland, many of those positive, some of those not positive. The position with the opt-out currently is that it gets a higher audience share in Scotland than does the first part of the programme, the network section of the programme, which we think is interesting and we think helps to demonstrate that there is a demand for that kind of journalism in Scotland. I wondered if the programme to which you were referring in your own case was the programme on the day that the previous First Minister resigned.

  3. Yes.
  (Mr Jenkins) Let me elaborate on what happened that day. The Newsnight UK programme was dealing with the same story, that was the main issue on the main Newsnight programme. It was felt between the two production teams that because for the UK audience, the wider UK audience, a lot of explaining and catch-up had to be done on what this was about and what was going on (whereas in Scotland, clearly, we could assume a certain level of knowledge on the part of the audience of what had led up to this particular event—and I think in the light of events this proved to be a justified decision: we had a very high audience for Newsnight Scotland that night, one of our highest)—and I think that the two programmes, while doing the same issue, the same story, took a quite different editorial approach designed for the two different audiences.

  4. Have there been any other effects of devolution in the structure of news and current affairs in Scotland?
  (Mr McCormick) One of the key things is—Sir Robert began to refer to it—that after the creation of the Scottish Parliament and this investment of £10 million, there was also a restructuring; for example, in what we call the news hour (the Six O'Clock News and Reporting Scotland). To take that as one of the key hours in the day for us, a very important hour for all of us across the BBC, the way that hour was planned and the relationship between colleagues in television news in London and colleagues in Glasgow was restructured. Maybe Roger can elaborate on that, Chairman.
  (Mr Mosey) Every morning we have a conference call at the start of the day, which did not used to happen, which features all the nations joining with editors in London to talk about the day's prospects and to discuss what we did the day before. We will have a constant dialogue through the day, so there is a conference call in the afternoon which brings everybody together to look at the running orders and so on, and then Blair and I have a healthy relationship of e-mail and phone calls which we will use to kick around the bigger stories. For instance, on the day of the First Minister's resignation we did think it was hugely important that the UK Newsnight did the story properly, and working out how we would play our two teams on that is the sort of thing we talk about all the time. That, frankly, did not used to happen and it now does. It is hugely beneficial.
  (Mr Jenkins) The dialogue now is much more. It is a good, healthy exchange of views. Perhaps another point that has not been appreciated publicly is that BBC Scotland is now managerially responsible for all network news gathering in Scotland and television news gathering, so that the people who work on the network news programmes are actually part of the BBC Scotland operation. One of the consequences of that, I think, aligned with the fact that there is a growing demand for material from Scotland from network news programmes, is that there has been a really quite remarkable increase in the volume of Scottish stories carried on network television news. Looking at the figures, if you look at the final quarter of last year as against the final quarter of 1999, there is almost a tripling of the number of items taken from Scotland into network UK news programmes from the position that pertained a couple of years ago. We think that demonstrates a close working relationship between the news teams in Scotland and London and I think a much greater appetite on the part of network news programmes for material from north of the border.
  (Mr McCormick) That news hour is now one of the most successful in terms of audience take-ups, of all our programmes in Scotland. The Six O'Clock News outperforms its opposite programme, the ITV early evening news, and ReportingScotland outperforms the ITV equivalent. So both our half hours outperform the opposition, with the audience increasing, and indeed Reporting Scotland is the most popular news half-hour in Scotland, which is indicative of at least the public coming to the programmes and supporting them on a long-term basis.

Mr Duncan

  5. You both mentioned about a change in the way you managerially are structured and the way the organisation has reacted between the Scottish end and the BBC network. How does that compare with how changes have happened in the other regions in the UK? Has it happened to a similar degree in Northern Ireland, Wales and so on?
  (Mr Mosey) Northern Ireland and Wales are involved, yes. I am careful here about the sensitivities of different nations. Clearly the amount of devolution in Scotland is more significant and of a different nature to Northern Ireland and Wales, and therefore actually I probably spend more of my time talking to Blair than to Wales or to Northern Ireland, but they are all important. We try to reflect all nations that we deal with.

  6. Prior to devolution, was there already greater autonomy, if you like, in, for example, Northern Ireland than there was in Scotland?
  (Mr McCormick) Not really, no.
  (Mr Jenkins) I can only speak for the last couple of years but I think it is probably true to say that there is a more intense relationship, with everything that that means, between London and Glasgow than perhaps with the other nations.

Mr Weir

  7. You talk to each other but somebody must presumably make the ultimate decision on the running order. We will come on later to the content of news programmes north and south of the border. There must be a structure. Who makes the ultimate decision on what goes out in what order in Scotland?
  (Mr Mosey) In the end, for national UK news we make those decisions, but those decisions are informed by contact with all our colleagues. I think sometimes people all over the UK think that the people making decisions in London are Londoners who only know metropolitan lifestyle. I personally come from Bradford, lots of my colleagues come from all over the UK, and we try to make decisions based on what we believe is the best UK mix of stories on a particular day. To give you an example of where I think now some things come absolutely automatically, on the morning that Henry McLeish resigned, it was absolutely without question that it would be the lead on the BBC news, UK-wide, through the day. ITV, as it happened, took a different view and led with Prince Charles being hit by a carnation in the Baltic States. I could not conceive us doing that because we try to take a UK picture. The resignation of Henry McLeish: a massive story—a massive UK story and a really big Scottish story.

  8. Big stories are obvious but on quieter news days it is not quite so obvious. If you get September 11 or the volcano in Goma, it is quite obvious it is going to be big news, but there may be differences on other days. How do you square that circle?
  (Mr Jenkins) The position is exactly as Roger described. The running order and the content of a network news programme is decided by the network teams based in London. If we feel a story is being underplayed or omitted or overlooked, then that is where the vigorous dialogue to which we have referred comes in. I think there is a very positive reception now from the news teams in London. If either myself or someone else from Scotland news and current affairs is saying, "You're underplaying this story," or "It should feature higher in the programme," then I think people will take that on board.

  9. There was suggestion in some of the papers about a problem with stories being dropped late from the national news bulletin, not giving time perhaps for Reporting Scotland to cover it in depth. Do you find that to be a problem?
  (Mr Jenkins) No, not in my experience. The two programme teams work very closely. It will often be the case that a Scottish story will be in the Six O'Clock News and then will be done in greater depth in Reporting Scotland, but in terms of our own dialogue with our viewers we do not find that that is a cause of annoyance. They say, yes, they expect to see the story in the Six O'Clock News and then expect to see it done in more depth in Reporting Scotland.

  10. That is not quite the point I was asking. The point I was asking was: say Six O'Clock News is on a Scottish story, whatever that may be, if there is a big news story break which obviously takes precedence that Scottish story can fall off the end, if you like. It may not be scheduled to be put in detail on Reporting Scotland because it was on the national news. I am asking really whether that is a problem.
  (Mr Jenkins) I think the most honest answer I can give to that is: I am sure it must have happened. I cannot think of a recent occasion when it did but I am sure it must have inevitably. News programmes being the way they are, if news breaks then something has to give. I am not aware of it causing any problems to our production teams.

Mr Lyons

  11. Can I go back to the question of Newsnight again and the question of Newsnight Scotland, something I support and think has worked well. You talked about an increase in the number of people watching the Scottish segment for that. What are the figures for it?
  (Mr Jenkins) It is an increase in the share of audience. From the numbers for the final quarter of last year, the audience to the first half of Newsnight is on average, I think, about 108,000, and for Newsnight Scotland it is about 93,000. So the number watching comes down, but the number of people viewing television at that time, is in steep decline from 10.30 onwards, so the share of audience watching the programme, the share of the total number of people viewing television at that time, goes up for Newsnight Scotland. The volume of viewers on that channel as on every other channel is in decline at that time of night for the very understandable reason that people are going to bed.
  (Mr McCormick) The UK section of Newsnight underperforms in Scotland compared with the rest of the UK. The average for Newsnight is 7.1 per cent in Scotland's share; the average for Newsnight Scotland is 7.5 per cent. If you look over the period from September to mid-December—despite the fact that that is the average over a year that we are talking about—depending on the news events of the week, we can often have more people viewing Newsnight Scotland at 11 o'clock than are viewing at 10.30/10.45. What we have found, over analysing the audience reaction to Newsnight Scotland, is that when there are very important events in Scotland (be it, say, the debate on Section 28 or the Scottish qualifications crisis or indeed the political events surrounding the resignation of the First Minister) then the audience finds Newsnight Scotland, because they know that it will be a subject of scrutiny that night in a way that is not available on any other programme. In the middle of the fuel crisis, the audience went up to 200,000 after we had live reports from Grangemouth, with people checking what was actually happening during that fuel crisis. So a great variation in the audience.

  12. Has that been the consistent story since Newsnight Scotland went on to Newsnight?
  (Mr Jenkins) Effectively, yes. Yes, it has.
  (Mr McCormick) We are broadly satisfied with the audience. While we know that it infuriates some people who cannot see the second half of Newsnight, who do not have a digital receiver where they can make the choice, it is certainly the case that if you took away Newsnight Scotland and went to the previous position we would certainly alienate a large audience in Scotland who clearly are telling us that we are providing an extension in the discussion and scrutiny of Scottish affairs.


  13. You cannot make the choice any more, because if you switch to digital now it is still the opt-out.
  (Mr McCormick) In digital satellite homes you can have BBC TWO UK on a separate channel. It is available on a second channel and we remind viewers at 10.30 frequently, from time to time, that if you have a digital satellite receiver you can receive BBC TWO UK and make your choice—and that is the ideal situation.

Mr Lazarowicz

  14. On this general question of how the opt-out of the separate Scottish programme fits into the whole scheme of things, are you generally satisfied with the quality of the opt-out provision both for Newsnight and also Reporting Scotland? Are you satisfied with the quality as compared with the UK-wide provision at that time?
  (Mr Jenkins) If we could deal with Reporting Scotland first—and I have quite a strong point to make, I think. Obviously, apart from our own assessment and the assessment which other people make and the normal dialogue you have with people in public life, I think we would go back to the viewing figures, and currently the audience lead which Reporting Scotland has over its opposition at that time is greater than it has been at any time in my experience (and I go back over 20 years in Scottish news and current affairs broadcasting). It is now quite a considerable gap against what is pretty good competition on the other channel and I think that indicates that people are finding a lot of value in the programme. Reporting Scotland at 6.30 has a higher audience than any news programme on any channel broadcast in Scotland. I think that is telling us that it is hitting its mark in at least some important respects. I think in terms of Newsnight Scotland it is perhaps in some ways almost the most discussed programme produced in Scotland, if not ever then certainly for many years. My experience, as someone who has been involved in the programme from the start, is that most of the controversy has centred on the issue of the opt-out: Was it right or not to opt-out of the Newsnight programme? which was a pretty vigorous debate. But I would say the overwhelming response to the quality of the journalism in Newsnight Scotland has been very, very positive and that comes back from all walks of life. As the Controller was saying, were that now to be withdrawn for any reason, I think we would find a great deal of public dissatisfaction.

  15. Given the successful figures—and I am sure you are correct—for Reporting Scotland, does that then raise the question for what was termed the "Scottish Six", the news programme directed entirely from within Scotland? Is that an option for the future again? Where does that idea stand?
  (Mr Jenkins) I assume my colleagues will want to say something on this as well. I think what I would say about it is that much of the discussion on Scottish Six took place pre-devolution, before the Parliament was set up, and we are now a couple of years in. A lot of the debate on whether or not the Scottish Six should go ahead, at the time when that debate was very active, enumerated, if you like, negative aspects of the current arrangement and some of the positive advantages there might be from moving towards the Scottish Six. I think what we would say about the news hour in Scotland at the moment between six and seven on BBC ONE is that it is clearly working very well in audience terms. We are getting a very positive response to it and we think the viewing figures show that. I think the case for the Scottish Six would have to be not that what we have at the moment is not working, but that we can identify ways in which what we do would be better and would be improved if we moved on to that particular proposition.

Mr Carmichael

  16. I am delighted that the Newsnight opt-out is working as well as it is. You make a good point when you say that the discussion on the Scottish Six was pre-devolution and understandably there was a lot of uncertainty about just how that was going to work. We are now two and a half years down the line into the Scottish Parliament. Your own evidence this morning is saying, "We are doing well. We are feeling a lot more into the international area, the network area of UK news." Frankly, I think you were timid when you said you were considering Scottish Six last time. I think you should have had a bit more courage. Have you got that courage now?
  (Mr McCormick) I do not think courage is what we are lacking. The decision lay with the Board of Governors. The Broadcasting Council strongly argued the case. Looking at the context across the BBC, it is the Governors' decision. The Governors decided on balance that the investment and the changes in structure which have been introduced since then, the impact of which we have been talking about, were something that they should see how it worked before this subject was discussed again. The issue of the Scottish Six remains on the table and the Broadcasting Council broadly supports the principle of it. As Sir Robert said, we felt that the time to go back is to see how the audience is reacting to the changes we have implemented, to see in fact if that endorses the Governors' decision that this is a better new service and in fact is something that they wish to see sustained without any further change, and the right time to do that was after a full term of the Scottish Parliament. So it was not courage that was lacking there. It was a full-hearted, courageous debate, some of which was represented in the press in a particular way.
  (Sir Robert Smith) Can I respond to the courage thing too. I have never been known to lack courage in these matters but I think it is important that we get it right and improve news provision. We were all, if you like, given the Governors' decision when I came in and I think the right time really is to look at it after the first session of the Scottish parliament. If you ask me: Does the Broadcasting Council still hold the view that we prefer to see editorial control in Glasgow? yes, that is the view of the Broadcasting Council, but we have not seen trailers, if you like. We have not properly researched the thing. I think we will look at that next spring, next May and thereafter. If we feel actually that there should be a change to that, then I will be going to my fellow Governors and be arguing for that—and I will not lack courage in that—but I would have to be convinced it is the right thing to do.

  17. Different interpretations of courage. You have said that you would need to be persuaded on the broader editorial quality, on the quality of provision front that a Scottish Six would provide a better service. What are you actively doing to assess whether that is the case or not?
  (Mr Jenkins) Like Sir Robert, I have the slight advantage that I was not at BBC Scotland at the time of the Scottish Six debate, so I was an extremely interested outside observer of that debate and fascinated by it. I think we have to be led by the audience in this. I think we are there primarily to serve viewers, to serve audiences in Scotland, and if they are telling us that they feel there is a deficiency in the current arrangements and in the way that we currently provide television news, then I think, if we discover that, that is something that would have to be taken very seriously. But I think it is very important this remains an editorial judgment and an editorial decision rather than a political judgment or a political decision. If the arrangements, as they currently are, are found to be editorially inhibiting or unsatisfactory, then I think that is one thing. I think that is what we would want to determine from the research that Sir Robert refers to next year.

Mr Lazarowicz

  18. I agree absolutely with your suggestion or your view that this should be an editorial decision not a political one. I think the worst thing in the world would be if there was any attempt by politicians to pressurise for either Scottish Six or indeed for the alternative arrangement. Can I ask, in terms of assessing the audience reaction on this, the audience demand for a programme, have you any way of assessing what the audience has actually been—leaving aside the comparative figures which are difficult to assess in a vacuum? The figure for the number of people watching one programme on one channel will relate not just to the quality of that programme but to that of the competition as well. Are there ways of assessing what the audience feels? Have there been any complaints or reactions from members of the public? Have you done surveys to indicate what the audience view is? If so, what are the results?
  (Mr Jenkins) One of the key things about viewing to television news between six and seven o'clock in the early evening—and I am sure this is true in most of the households represented here—is that it tends to be a pretty busy time in most households. There are a lot of things going on. Whereas most of us might have a model of television viewing as quite a linear model, that someone sits down in front of the television set and watches continuously, that is not actually how people use television between six and seven o'clock. What they tell us when we go and do focus groups and talk to groups of people and ask them is that lots of other things are going on: kids are being bathed, meals are being prepared, people are coming and going, arriving back from work and so on, so television news is in competition with other activities at that time of the night and that part of the schedule. What that means, what people do tell us, is that they do like a pretty clear map of where things are going within that hour. They like to know where to find things. One of the things people tell you when you ask is, "As long as I know where the sport is, as long as I know where the Scottish headlines are." They do want to be able to have landmarks through that hour where they can find the kind of content they want, so they know they can tune out for a couple of minutes to do something else and then tune back in to pick up again on a part of a programme in which they are particularly interested. So, yes, that work has been done and will continue to be done.

Mr Weir

  19. It does seem to me that there are models that could be adapted perhaps for television and radio. Good Morning Scotland is a very successful programme, along the lines that Scottish Six could be like as opposed to the Today programme on Radio 4. Exactly the same applies in the morning as in the evening, so I wonder if any research has been done as between television and radio audiences, how they react to Good Morning Scotland as opposed to the Today programme, and the relation of that to the prospect of Scottish Six in the same sort of format, as opposed to the opt-out we have now.
  (Mr Jenkins) I think you are absolutely right, Good Morning Scotland is a very successful programme. It is by a long way the most listened to speech programme in Scotland in the mornings and is a very successful blend of Scottish and national and international news. As you will know and I am sure other people on the Committee would know, in a sense one of the strongest arguments made in favour of the Scottish Six three years ago was the very success of the Good Morning Scotland model. You are absolutely right, that is something that has to be borne in mind. I think there are differences between radio and television consumption, however. On a very basic level, radio is portable, and whatever you are doing you tend to take the radio with you—or certainly I do—so I think it is probably more continuous than television viewing in that sense. But, you are right, GMS is a very good model. If we were to do Scottish Six, it is a very good model for that kind of programme.
  (Mr Mosey) I used to be Editor of the Today programme and I would very happily negotiate with my colleagues about Scotland, about running orders and how we used resources. But there are some differences in television. For instance, if we take the story you mentioned about the volcano last week, we had one correspondent at the scene and one satellite path out of there, therefore you cannot actually do the same thing at the same time UK wide and in Scotland. Therefore, I think one of the things we would all look at would be about how we preserve quality for both sets of output. Those are the practical issues that we would want to look at.

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