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23 Jan 2003 : Column 447—continued
Mr. Cook: I fully understand the hon. Gentleman's concern and I am grateful to him for giving me advance notice of his question. I think all hon. Members will agree that, as a matter of principle, anyone who is brought before our courts and charged with a serious offence, such as murder, should be defended. That is an important principle of our criminal justice system. In the event that they cannot afford the defence themselves, it is right also that that should be made available to them at the expense of the state.
The hon. Gentleman says that the two accused people are wealthy. If the Daily Mail or anyone else has evidence that they may not have made a full declaration of their assets to the Legal Aid Board, I urge them to share that with the police and the Legal Aid Board. A false declaration not only cheats the legal aid system, but is a criminal offence.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough): On Tuesday, I mistakenly criticised your office, Mr. Speaker. I also made another error at column 258 when I wrongly claimed that Lord Lipsey had changed his view on the composition of the House of Lords, for which I apologise. I have also written to him to apologise. Will the Leader of the House allow me an opportunity to set the record straight by confirming that the noble Lord has not changed his unfortunately mistaken views following his elevation to another place?
Andrew Mackinlay: Say, "I agree. I concur with my hon. Friend."
Mr. Cook: I am most grateful to my hon. Friend for his prompt. He will forgive me if I do not instantly reach out for it.
I am glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) has had the opportunity to put right the record on Lord Lipsey's views. I am sure that
he will be appropriately grateful to her for that. I doubt whether her exchange with him has changed either his views or her own. Going through the debate of the past two days, however, I was encouraged to note that about one in three of those who spoke in the other place expressed some support for an elected element within the second Chamber. That is substantial progress on the position a year ago. Although Lord Lipsey may not have changed his views, I am encouraged that there is a certain tide—or at any rate a gentle breeze—in the second place which we must try to encourage.
Mr. Mark Francois (Rayleigh): Will the Leader of the House find time for an early debate on job losses, because it would give me an opportunity to highlight the unfortunate decision announced by Powergen this week to make 210 of my constituents redundant at the facility in London road, Rayleigh? I am sure that he will appreciate that I am extremely concerned about that decision and am keen to do what I can to protect my constituents' interests, including by raising the matter in the House.
Mr. Cook: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to express the concerns of his constituency and community at that loss of jobs. I assure him that, as always, Departments will be willing to consider what might be appropriate by way of assistance to his community to cope with the consequences of a localised redundancy of that order. We are well aware of the difficulty that individuals and communities face as a result of job losses, but we take some pride in the fact that since we have been in office, 1.5 million more people are in work than there were at the time of the 1997 general election, 250,000 of whom came into work in the past year alone.
Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney, North and Stoke Newington): I thank my right hon. Friend for making time for a debate on defence yesterday, when many of my hon. Friends and colleagues made a series of excellent speeches against a war with Iraq.
The hon. Member for Congleton—
Sir Nicholas Winterton: Macclesfield.
The hon. Member for Macclesfield (Sir N. Winterton) said that it is important to have a vote in the House on a substantive motion. It is also important that that should take place before British troops are dispatched to war. The House is aware that there is no precedent for that in recent times, but it is highly unlikely that the tens of thousands of American and British troops massed on Iraq's borders will attack in secret, as my right hon. Friend suggested. The country does not understand why it is possible to dispatch British troops in such a major deployment without a vote in the House on a substantive motion before it happens.
Mr. Cook: First, my hon. Friend draws attention to the fact that the House had an interesting debate yesterday in which the issues were again fully ventilated. That was one of a number of debates in the House on the subject, including one before Christmas when the Government put a substantive motion before it. At that time, the House massively endorsed our approach to
ensure that we conduct the management of the crisis in Iraq through the United Nations, to which it also gave its full support.I have no doubt that the House will discuss the issue on a number of other occasions. Indeed, this Administration was punctilious in ensuring that it had many opportunities to discuss issues that affected the deployment of British troops in Afghanistan and Kosovo. We will certainly do the same in relation to Iraq. Whether the vote on the commitment of military troops will take place before or after they are put into action will be judged at the time, but there can be no question whatsoever of the British Government committing British troops if there is any doubt about us securing support for that within the House of Commons.
It is important that we remember also that the matter may not necessarily end with the commitment of military troops. The strategy for which we voted involved ensuring that we uphold the UN resolution. If we can secure the compliance and co-operation of Saddam, there will be no need for the UN to authorise military action to uphold that resolution. The key to making progress and avoiding war rests not in this Chamber, but with Saddam Hussein in complying with his obligations under the resolution.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham): May we please have an urgent debate in Government time on the effect of prison overcrowding on rehabilitation programmes for persistent offenders? Given that the prison population is projected to rise from approximately 72,000 now to 109,000 by 2009, that purposeful activity in prisons has consistently declined since this Government took office in 1997, and that 84 per cent. of 14 to 17-year-old thrice-convicted offenders are reconvicted within two years of their release from custody, is not it important that this House has the opportunity to debate the centrality to public policy of rehabilitation programmes if we are to create a peaceful society and the law and order for which all democratically elected legislators rightly pray?
Mr. Cook: I fully understand the hon. Gentleman's concern about overcrowding in prisons; it is shared on both sides of the House. I also absolutely agree with him that arranging creative and constructive activities to assist rehabilitation in prisons is more difficult when wardens are stretched and there is stress as a result of overcrowding. We are certainly considering ways to ease that overcrowding. Indeed, 3,000 new prison places will come on stream over the next year.
Having said that, I must say to the hon. Gentleman, who often takes a courageous and bold idiosyncratic stance—
Mr. Cook: One can see the amount of courage the hon. Gentleman requires by the support he gets from his Front Benchers. I shall try to give him more support than he gets from his right hon. and hon. Friends. It would help us to minimise the threat of overcrowding in
prisons if we were not urged so often by Conservative Members to lock up even more people, and criticised by them when we do not do so.
John Robertson (Glasgow, Anniesland): My right hon. Friend will be aware of the job losses announced by BAE Systems earlier this week: 265 on the Clyde and 700 in Barrow. Despite the work of the unions, Scottish Enterprise, Glasgow city council, the Scottish Parliament and the elected representatives of the area, and an agreement struck last year to secure the present employment level, here we are again. Will my right hon. Friend arrange a debate on the losses and the company's conduct towards its employees?
Mr. Cook: As a fellow Scottish MP, I fully understand the enormous impact that that will have on my hon. Friend's community and on the wider region. I entirely share his concern. It is indeed a matter of deep regret that a commitment made last year has not been kept by the company. He will be well aware that we will be working with the Scottish Executive to consider whether there is any way in which we can be of assistance to the local community and to those most intimately affected.
Mrs. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton): Will the Leader of the House arrange either for a Home Office statement or for a substantive written explanation to be put in the House of Commons Library concerning the Prime Minister's answer yesterday to the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore), who asked about drug crime in areas outside inner cities—the suburbs and the wider country? The Prime Minister said:
- "we are ensuring that people who need drug treatment are given it".—[Official Report, 22 January 2003; Vol. 398, c. 296.]
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