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10 Feb 2003 : Column 715—continued
8.39 pm
David Burnside (South Antrim): Following the previous speaker, I will try to be an optimistic voice on behalf of my constituents. Most of the people in Northern Ireland are happy living in Northern Ireland. We like living there. It is not all depression and bad news. A lot of good things are happening in the Province
and there is a lot of optimism. However, we have to be realistic as well as optimistic. I will be opposing the changes and I will do so on principle.Not many Conservatives are present for this debate—in fact, there are not many Conservatives in the House—but I have an old-fashioned attitude to institutions that are working and that should not change, and they include this House, this Parliament and the Royal Ulster Constabulary. We had a very fine police force called the Royal Ulster Constabulary. Its record against terrorism and crime was unrivalled throughout the world. Even if we take terrorist-defined crime out of the equation, it had the best detection rates of any force in the UK. It had high morale, gained respect and received co-operation from the community—both Protestant and Catholic. That force was treated disgracefully by the Patten report, which is one of the weakest parts of the peace process. It has disillusioned the Unionist community more than any other aspect of the peace process.
If I am re-elected to this place the next time or the time after that, I shall look forward to the elective dictatorship here being more finely balanced. I look forward to a few more Conservatives and a few more Ulster Unionists being here. [Hon. Members: "And a few more from the DUP."] A few more Ulster Unionists within the united Unionist family. I envisage the circumstances in which we could negotiate the legal incorporation to which my hon. Friend the Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) referred. She was right when she mentioned a document in the Library referring to the incorporation of the name of the RUC, but she went to a memorial service at St. Anne's in Belfast for the old RUC. There is no visibility, and that is wrong. Perhaps the problem can be fixed, but the RUC should not have been treated in the way that it was.
Policing concessions are being made and suggested tonight and, as part of the political process, they are being negotiated behind the scenes with the SDLP and Sinn Fein in the nationalist-republican camp further to weaken policing in Northern Ireland. Deals are being done and discussions are taking place. A form of front organisation will appear at Hillsborough later this week, but the deals are being done. I do not want to be pessimistic, but the Government must understand that Unionist Members are not bluffing. We are not bluffing when we say, "If you make further concessions way beyond the Good Friday agreement, such as putting terrorists on to the district policing partnerships"—there is a different position with the Policing Board—"I, as Ulster Unionist Member of Parliament, will refer back to the decision taken by the Ulster Unionist Council before Christmas. We will not be on the Policing Board."
The Government will remove the police authority and replace it with the Policing Board. They will bring terrorists in who will present operational problems to the police's divisional commanders. That will make policing on the ground worse and it will not deal with the threat of crime in Northern Ireland. Whether it is the mafia, the drug dealing and the violence or whether we call it terrorist or criminal activity, I cannot see a difference. Such activities are all intertwined and they are all one. Such activities are committed by both republicans and loyalists.
The Government are weakening policing and they are doing so as the result of political concessions in a political process. Ulster Unionists and Democratic Unionists will not sit in an Executive with Sinn Fein because of its hypocrisy and because of what went on in Colombia, Castlereagh and Stormontgate. If we will not sit in the Executive with Sinn Fein, we will not sit on a Policing Board with its members. Sinn Fein is not a legitimate normal political party. It has not gone through the transition.
I look forward with optimism, because I believe that people can change. I hope that those who have been involved in violence in Northern Ireland—whether they are republican or loyalist—can have a future as well as a past. However, the evidence is that that will not happen in the foreseeable future. Sinn Fein-IRA is playing a double game. The Government may think that these and further concessions on policing will help, but they are weakening policing in Northern Ireland and that will not produce a stable political process that has the consent of the Unionist and nationalist peoples. The Government are getting it badly wrong by misjudging the mood of the Unionist people. They will see that reflected if and when there is an election on 1 May.
I hope that the Government will listen to us, because I am not trying to be pessimistic, but realistic. We are saying to them, "Your legislation is not improving policing in Northern Ireland, and you have done enough harm already." Let us try to restore the morale that existed in the old RUC. Let us try to build up community policing and to get the support of the majority of the Protestant and Catholic population who always supported the RUC. Let us regain and rebuild the morale that existed in a fine force that was decimated and treated disgracefully by this Government.
8.45 pm
Mr. Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich, West): In supporting the Bill, I share the humility that was demonstrated by the hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr. Carmichael), as I am conscious that my involvement in and association with the issues surrounding Northern Ireland are very slight in comparison with many hon. Members who contributed to the debate. Since my involvement with the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs, however, I have developed a perspective that I should like to convey.
The proposals outlined in the Bill are hardly the most dramatic—by and large, they are refinements of existing legislation—but given the passion expressed by some hon. Members about even its seemingly arcane and detailed aspects, I cannot accept the view of the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford (Mr. Davies) that the way to deal with the Northern Ireland situation is to take a multi-party and big banner approach to resolving all the issues involved in policing in one omnibus piece of legislation. It is obvious that the passions generated and the depth of feeling that arises as a result of even the smallest change to the existing position in Northern Ireland are such as to make that approach completely impossible. The way forward is the incremental approach that the Government have adopted in changing legislation as and when circumstances change.
The hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr. Donaldson) suggested an apocalyptic outcome for the approach that we have adopted, but I want to contrast what I saw when I first went to Northern Ireland in 1972 with the situation in Belfast now. That clearly demonstrates the benefits that have accrued from the Government's approach. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State talked about the changes that have taken place in Belfast since 1994. I went to Belfast in 1972, when I was relatively young. One in three or one in four buildings had been bombed out, the city was saturated with members of the armed forces, and pervasive tension existed everywhere. It was a frightening experience that I will never forget. I contrast that with my first visit as a member of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in 2001, when I saw a city that seemed relaxed, self confident and prosperous—a total transformation from the vision that I had carried around with me for 30 years. It is sad that many who have not visited Belfast have the 1972 rather than the current vision of that city. Apocalyptic pronouncements reinforce that impression.
Every change to effect the transformation happened only because people were prepared to act in good faith, take things on trust, and swallow reservations and deeply held feelings and prejudices that were based on legitimate personal experience. They did that because the opportunities gave Belfast a future.
The Patten report recognised that for change to accelerate in Northern Ireland, it was necessary to have a police force that was trusted and represented all communities. When I first read the profound changes that Patten proposed, I felt a frisson of foreboding that they would never work. I feared that the prevailing culture in Northern Ireland meant that the changes would not be accepted. However, my foreboding was unjustified. The Policing Board exists. People said that it would not work and that no members of the Catholic community would participate. They are participating and the body is working.
The comments that have been made today about the Policing Board's performance are reassuring. The changes are a testimony to its commitment, ability and inspiration of trust. They would have been unimaginable 10 years ago. As well as the cross-community Policing Board, we have a new name, new badge, new chief officer, new ethical policy, a new commitment to community policing and enhanced recruitment from all sections of society.
No other organisation has undergone such profound changes in such a short time. That is a credit to those in the former RUC who have accepted and worked through the changes, whatever the extent of their initial instinctive resentment of them. It is also a credit to the moderate, nationalist community and the SDLP, which supported the changes, and the courageous young Catholics who joined the Northern Ireland police force in spite of the evident intimidation from some dissident republican forces.
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