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10 Feb 2003 : Column 722—continued
Mr. Robinson: I shall certainly give way to the hon. Lady, if she wants to try.
Lady Hermon: I am most grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. Since the Patten report is anathema to his party, can he explain why his colleagues have no hesitation in taking their places on the Policing Board, which, of course, was the creation of the Patten report?
Mr. Robinson: I am not sure whether I should get into arguments that I might think justified in answering in a primary school, but which would perhaps be a waste of time in this honourable House. I would have thought it fairly obvious that, just because Democratic Unionists do not get their way, we do not walk off and say that we are not playing. We have to work within the institutions that are there, while we seek to change them. We are present on the Policing Board, even though we did not like its creation and the surrounding structures, and for exactly the same reason, even though we do not like the Belfast agreement, we are in the Northern Ireland Assembly, convincing people that change is necessary, and doing so very successfully. Perhaps it is our success in that area that concerns the hon. Lady more than anything else.
The Patten report led to much of the destruction of the policing service in Northern Ireland and has been the cause of many of the difficulties that we now face. Not least of those is the issue of 50:50 recruitment, which is again addressed in the Bill. It is a grotesque discrimination against the Protestant community in Northern Ireland that 50 per cent. of those recruited into the police service have to be Roman Catholic, while the other 50 per cent. come from all other denominations and none. Roman Catholic recruitment is favoured, even though that section of the community is a minority in Northern Ireland.
As I have said before, in the House, in the Select Committee and elsewhere, I want to see an increase in recruitment from the Roman Catholic community to the police service. That is desirable and would be good for policing in Northern Ireland. However, it must take place on merit. People must be recruited on the basis that they deserve to be so and have been judged against all others who wish to be recruited. People are being judged suitable to join the police service, but cannot be recruited because there are not enough people from another religion to balance them, and that is clearly unsatisfactory. The merit principle has been downgraded and the police service has not had the numbers it needs to do the job that needs to be done.
Changes are required, but the Government's disdain for the Unionist community is apparent when they introduce a Bill to meet the criteria set down by the SDLP for changes in policing, while having in waiting a
further draft Bill that they hope will be satisfactory to Sinn Fein-IRA. At the same time, all the complaints made by Unionists in Northern Ireland about policing are disregarded. The Government make no attempt to address our requirements. I question the strength of the Government's position when they have to pander to two small parties—SDLP and Sinn Fein—and disregard the two larger parties in Northern Ireland. That is not a tenable position.I have listened to the eloquent comments by some hon. Members who look forward to the day when Sinn Fein can be persuaded to represent their community on the district policing partnerships. Where were those people in all the years when the Government discriminated against my party in its representation on the police authority? I did not hear any of them arguing for our representation, but they are prepared to change laws to allow the representation of a smaller party. It shows something of the state of mind of the Government and their supporters that they are prepared to do many a thing for Sinn Fein that they are not prepared to do for the Unionist community.
The Bill is Patten plus. It goes even beyond the love of the Patten report felt by the hon. Member for North Down. The intent is to woo Sinn Fein into the policing arrangements. However, the Government should be alert to the warning signals in their recent discussions with Sinn Fein-IRA, in which the provisional movement has demanded that policing powers be devolved to Northern Ireland, so that it can have direct control over those powers. The Government should listen carefully before they try to do any deal with Sinn Fein-IRA on that basis. For just one moment, they should imagine how people in Northern Ireland who have suffered from IRA terrorism for decades would feel if we ever saw the day when those same IRA terrorist representatives were in charge of law and order in Northern Ireland. Some law, some order—if the representatives of Sinn Fein-IRA were in charge of policing under devolved responsibility in Northern Ireland. I urge the Government to think twice before going down that road, or they will bring down very hot coals on their head.
The hon. Member for Birmingham, Hall Green (Mr. McCabe) argued that the upgrading and updating of legislation is natural and normal, and that one should expect it. One should consider policing experiences and make changes accordingly. As a general principle, there is a lot of truth in that. The House should indeed be doing that. If experience on the ground suggests that changes are necessary to make policing more effective and efficient, the House should legislate for those changes. But does anybody honestly believe that the Bill, and the Bill in waiting that the Government hope to introduce by way of amendment if they can get Sinn Fein to sign up on time, are being introduced for the purpose of ensuring greater efficiency and effectiveness in Northern Ireland? They will do nothing of the kind.
The Minister of State, the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister are all happy to divulge the public reason for the measure. They say that it meets a commitment that was made at Weston Park. Exactly what went at Weston Park is neither precise nor clear. We know that discussions took place, which included matters covered in the Bill and in the further draft that the Secretary of State made available to us. He has not,
however, been prepared to divulge the extent to which those discussions involved all the parties. The extent to which they were agreed by all the parties is certainly disputed. The extent to which other leaders might have acquiesced in some of those matters is not clear.What is clear is that the purpose of the Bill is to make good commitments that were made to at least one party at Weston Park—the SDLP. Perhaps it also gives part of what was required by Sinn Fein. Let us not have the nonsense, introduced in this debate, that we are gathered here because it has dawned on the Government that the experience on the ground of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000 demands that these changes be made. Nothing of the sort! A sordid, dirty deal was done at Weston Park. The Government have admitted that they entered into a political deal. That is the truth. The Government can spin things however they want; they can coach their Back Benchers as much as they like to drop in a word about the desirability of the changes, but the reality is that they did a deal to win the Provisional IRA and the SDLP over to the political process.
What problems should the Government have addressed in the Bill? Let them go to Northern Ireland and ask ordinary people about the policing problems that need to be addressed. The Government would be told instantly that people ring the police but they do not come round because no car is available. There are not enough officers on the beat. Resources are so low that the police cannot meet the needs on the ground. People would tell the Government that police stations are being closed at a time when a greater police presence is needed. Those are the issues that need to be addressed. The police need to be made more effective, not to be turned into a political tool to satisfy the SDLP and Sinn Fein.
The hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies) indicated that he is angry and therefore does not attend debates on Northern Ireland Bills because he does not like hearing what Unionists have to say, as it seems to have that effect on him. Well, if that were the basis on which some of us entered the House, we would have to recognise—
Huw Irranca-Davies: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Robinson: I will save the hon. Gentleman from intervening. Clearly, he does not want to be associated with the hon. Member for Milton Keynes, North-East (Brian White). I do not want that to happen, so I should make it clear that I was referring to the hon. Member for Milton Keynes, North-East. I welcome the fact the hon. Gentleman wants to distance himself from the hon. Member for Milton Keynes, North-East.
Clearly, the House has to address the reality that it is about time that Labour Members listened to what Unionist Members are saying about such issues, whether or not it fits in with their own thinking. The elections make it very clear that there is a Unionist majority in Northern Ireland. The census makes it very clear that there will be a Unionist majority in Northern Ireland for a very long time.
Instead of attempting to accommodate small political parties in Northern Ireland, it is about time that the Government listened to the voice of—[Interruption.]
The Secretary of State seems to think that I have said something outrageous, but I would challenge Labour Members: if they think that what I am saying is untoward, they might like to stand in elections in Northern Ireland. There is always the possibility that they could go around, trying to recruit, and they could send out the hon. Member for Milton Keynes, North-East to find out how many people he could get to join the Labour party.
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