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13 Feb 2003 : Column 1121—continued
5.50 pm
Mr. Ivan Lewis: On the whole, the debate has been of a very high standard, and many positive contributions have been made. However, the great contrast was to be found in the contributions of the hon. Members for Altrincham and Sale, West (Mr. Brady), and for Daventry (Mr. Boswell). As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury, North (Mr. Chaytor) said, the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West repeated the mistakes that have been made throughout history in our attempts to present vocational education and training.
Mr. Lewis: The hon. Gentleman articulated a "sheep and goats" model—exactly the model that the Leader of
the Opposition announced as Tory party policy on his visit to Holland earlier this week. That is quite astonishing.
Mr. Lewis: Unlike the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West, the hon. Member for Daventry outlined some principles that could be the basis for consensus in our approach to vocational education and training.
Mr. Lewis: As he listed those principles, I scribbled them down simultaneously. Our approach should provide a high-status, high-value route for young people. We must provide a high-quality learning experience that should not be the same learning experience as a general qualification. The experience can be stand-alone, or form part of a mixed learning pathway. It can lead directly to higher education and a vocational route—making nonsense of the 50 per cent. allegation—or to skilled employment. The option must genuinely be for all young people, and not just for disengaged young people.
In achieving those objectives, we need to put in place a number of component policy building blocks. We must consider the quality of advice, information and guidance; the attitude of parents and how to influence it; the attitude of young people; and employers' human resource policies. Employers say that they want people with vocational skills, yet they still advertise for people with five O-levels. We need to look at the way universities respond to high quality vocational pathways for 14 to 19-year-olds. I agree with the hon. Member for Daventry when he says that no magic wand or White Paper will deliver parity of esteem. What we should seek are the building blocks that converge esteem, and in time, parity of esteem will occur naturally.
The hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West also said that young people take too many exams, and he questioned the virtue of a baccalaureate model. However, an article of 27 August last year, entitled "Tories look at replacing A-levels with baccalaureate", states the following:
- "A-levels are no longer the 'gold standard' they once were, the Conservatives are to argue, as they promise an overhaul of the sixth form curriculum to require students to show greater breadth of knowledge.
Proposals being discussed by Damian Green, the shadow education secretary, and his team could mean the introduction of extra exam papers in which students would be expected to show ability in subjects they were not specialising in . . . Another option is to extend the international baccalaureate".
The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough (Mr. Willis) made a generally positive contribution, as ever. He described me as a good man, and I shall put that in my next focus leaflet in Bury, South. He welcomed a measured approach, and it is absolutely vital that we get it right. We must reassure people about the integrity of the system in the short term, and we must also ensure that we get the reforms right when we deliver them, and as they impact on young people and teachers.
The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough said something that I thought slightly unfair about the hon. Member for Altrincham and Sale, West. He said that the Tories can say whatever they want, because they will never be in government. That accusation has often been made about the hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough, who also said that my hon. Friend the Minister for School Standards was in the social exclusion unit. That was only when my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister thought that my hon. Friend needed extra help to get back on message.
Many people have spoken about the importance of impartial advice and guidance in respect of the Connexions service. It is important that the service be independent and of high quality. It must be universal, in the sense that all young people have access to it, and it must recognise that some young people need more intensive support than others. The hon. Member for Harrogate and Knaresborough will be pleased to hear that we will be issuing guidance very soon on providing careers guidance from the age of 11. We accept that it needs to start far earlier than 14.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury (Ann Taylor) spoke in an informed and passionate way about opening up opportunities in her constituency. She rightly advocates the tremendous possibilities now available for co-operation between education institutions in localities. Schools can now co-operate with each other, and with local colleges. In the pathfinder projects and the federations that now exist, schools, colleges and employers work together in an integrated way. I am sure that we will look sympathetically on an application from Dewsbury for that type of pathfinder project.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury also referred to the importance of high-quality 16 to 19 provision in her community. She does not want young people to have to leave Dewsbury and go elsewhere for that provision. If it can be demonstrated that those needs are not being met in Dewsbury, there are real opportunities, under the area inspection and area review processes, for resources to be found to create the necessary specialist provision, whether it be part of a FE college or as a stand-alone sixth form college.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Dewsbury also mentioned the structure of qualifications and the importance of looking at unitisation. I have excellent news for her and other hon. Members: my hon. Friend the Minister for School Standards has briefed the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority and asked them to look at the question of unitisation with regard to qualifications.
My hon. Friend the Member for Norwich, North (Dr. Gibson) listed the many tremendous initiatives on science that the Government have introduced, but accused us of not having a strategic approach. There may be some legitimacy in that criticism. I invite my hon. Friend to come to the Department to discuss with me how we can develop a more strategic approach—as long as he promises not to summon me before his Select Committee.
The right hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Sir J. Stanley) said that specialist status was not suitable for schools with a wide academic base. That is extremely offensive to many schools that have achieved or applied for that status. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has made it clear that the issue with grammar schools has to do with the effect on standards for all pupils in the relevant localities. It is not about ideological warfare.
My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington, North (Helen Jones) made an excellent speech. She talked vividly about the consequences of failure in terms of people dropping out at 16. We need to remember that dropping out at 16 often leads young people into low-skilled jobs, unemployment or crime, but those young people are also the parents of the future. When they parent their children, they will not instil an understanding of the importance of education—the reason we have so many difficulties in terms of aspirations.
My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington, North made a strong case for the importance of getting young people engaged in active citizenship and voluntary work as part of a leaving certificate. We are all worried about the disengagement of young people from their communities, and the intergenerational conflict between younger people and their elders. Getting young people involved in community service is extremely important, and it will help with creating the skilled work forces that our public services will need in the future. Young people involved in voluntary work are far more likely to go into such work.
My hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley, East and Mexborough (Jeff Ennis) spoke eloquently about the contributions made by different Government initiatives to raising standards in his community, where low aspirations have been a problem for too long. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister for School Standards will look sympathetically on Willowgarth school's application for specialist status.
My hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Mrs. Cryer) made a very eloquent contribution about the importance of getting right the education offered to young people from the ethnic minority communities.
My hon. Friend the Member for Bury, North advocated a more individualised approach to learning, which would take into account people's cultural or religious backgrounds and the barriers that they may face in making progress in education.
We all share a passion for all children to have those opportunities and a programme of learning tailored for their individual needs.
It being Six o'clock, the motion for Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
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