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4 Mar 2003 : Column 696—continued
Mr. Allan: For the sake of accuracy, may I make it clear that the person accused in Norway had written the computer program to be able to play his legitimately purchased DVDs on the Linux and not the Windows operating system. That is why the court found in his favour. There was no suggestion that he was copying for resale or anything like that. He merely wanted to watch his DVDs and was smart enough to find a way of doing that.
Mr. Whittingdale: As I understand it, however, the problem was that he made available on the internet the program that he had developed. It was then downloaded by millions of other people who used it not to watch DVDs on a different operating system but to crack the safeguards built into DVDs. That enabled them to copy them, which demonstrates the limitations of technology. Each time that someone develops a new method of trying to safeguard copyright through technology, someone else will find a way round it.
A couple of months ago, I read that the record companies in this country were developing something called Cactus data shield to try to prevent the copying of CDs. That gives rise to the question that the hon. Member for Rhondda (Mr. Bryant) asked. Once people have made a purchase, should they not be allowed to make a copy? I suspect that it will not be long before someone overcomes this technological constraint and finds a way of making copies.
The problem will get worse. At present, one at least has to have an original that has been purchased before one can copy it. The real danger, however, comes from the internet. At present, the copying of music is relatively simple using the normal broadband access that is available in parts of the country if not in others. We shall deal with that issue in the next debate. Even broadband is not capable of providing high-quality movie reproduction, but it is only a matter of time before it will be able to do that.
I visited Dolphin house, which is wired by ntl. It offers much faster access than conventional ADSL technology, and I believe that 2 or 3 megabytes a second
are on offer. It is possible to log on to a site that streams DVD quality movies down the fibre direct on to the screen. It would obviously be very simple just to record that, and that constitutes the same threat to the movie industry that is currently destroying the music industry. If the practice of logging in free to sites that offer movies becomes widespread, and if those movies can be downloaded rapidly and simply on to a recordable DVD in a bedroom or an office, that will pose real dangers to the movie industry.
Michael Fabricant: I have been following my hon. Friend's remarks with interest. Does he not realise that even now there is a danger resulting from the digital terrestrial and satellite transmission of movies and from digital audio broadcasting? In theory, there is nothing to prevent someone from burning a DVD of something taken off air with digital quality.
Mr. Whittingdale: That is perfectly true. To some extent, it is a question of the desirability of the films involved. The right hon. Member for Islington, South and Finsbury referred to "Spider-Man" and "Star Wars: Episode II" and it will be some time before they become available on television. Part of the attraction is having a copy on DVD before one's friends have even had a chance to see the film in the cinema. My hon. Friend is right about the threat.
The new clause tabled by the right hon. Member for Islington, South and Finsbury is welcome in that, if nothing else, it allows us to talk about issues that are of huge importance to the industries concerned. I very much hope that Ofcom will at least be aware and take account of these issues in all its consideration of the development of technology and in its regulation of the communications sector in general. However, if an answer exists, I suspect that it does not lie in regulation by Ofcom. I do not think that it even lies in the technological solutions that we have been discussing.
If there is a solution, it is that of the industry exploiting the internet and viewing it as a new opportunity to make material available. It should try to persuade people to purchase products from internet sites rather than accessing them illegally and downloading material without any payment being given to the copyright owner. The way to do that is by providing added value. The music industry is now examining ways of making music available with all sorts of additional bonuses that come with its purchase from an internet site. The same approach could be adopted by the movie industry.
I have seen research from America that shows that a variety of additional items could be attached to the purchase. For example, additional material can be provided about the making of the product or concessions could be offered on theatre tickets. A variety of bonuses and attractions could be provided and they might persuade people that, rather than break the law and deprive copyright owners, artists and performers of the money to which they are entitled, they should go to a legitimate site that makes available the same product for a small payment. That is a market-based solution and the only long-term solution.
I do not decry the attempts of the right hon. Member for Islington, South and Finsbury to raise this issue and to get Ofcom to take account of it. I support those attempts, but the new clause will not solve a problem that will increase in the coming months and years. I suspect that the only answer is for the industry to adapt and to try to use the market opportunities in the way that I have suggested. If it does not do that, its future looks very bleak.
Mr. Bryant: I, too, am delighted that my right hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury (Mr. Smith) has tabled the new clause, but I am hesitant about supporting it. I am broadly sympathetic to the thrust of the issues that he has raised in relation to piracy and counterfeiting. It must be a major concern to any right-thinking person that acts of theft occur on a daily basis as the result of organised crime. My hon. Friend the Minister for Tourism, Film and Broadcasting has been on a number of busts with the police and other organisations in the past three months, and he has tried to point out that the buying of CDs that have been manufactured deliberately to get round the copyright law is clearly wrong and immoral. However, I do not share the apocalyptic version of the future with which my right hon. Friend and the hon. Member for Maldon and East Chelmsford (Mr. Whittingdale) have presented us.
In the debate about piracy, we all too easily forget the role of consumers. As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow, Anniesland (John Robertson) pointed out, consumers are bombarded with two messages by the same companies. The first is "Come and buy our wonderful technology, which enables you to tape pieces of music from other sources and put them on to your own CD." The second is that they are engaged in an act of piracy that is wholly illegal and immoral. That presents a difficult problem for consumers. The marketing of some organisations has been downright hypocritical. In fact, when I worked for the BBC in Brussels and I was engaged at some length on the copyright directive, it was almost impossible to find a music or film industry company that was not in some way tied to a business that manufactured some kind of copying machinery or technology.
Pete Wishart: Can the hon. Gentleman not make a distinction between the young person sitting in his bedroom making a copy of a CD for his own use and the mass production of illegally counterfeited and copied products that one sees in marketplaces around the UK?
Mr. Bryant: I am sorry that I am not making myself plain enough, as that is indeed the distinction that I want to draw. It is sometimes not drawn sufficiently clearly in the debate about piracy. My right hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury referred to the 62 per cent. of young people who think that it is perfectly legitimate to download music from the internet without payment. Probably 95 per cent. of the people with whom I was at school at the age of 18 copied "Top of the Pops" on to a cassette on a Sunday evening so that they could listen to it at various times during the week. I see hon. Members around the Chamber nodding, including Conservative Members and the hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam (Mr. Allan)—who as I can remember his constituency will get into Hansard for having engaged in that illegal activity.
There is a real onus on the manufacturers, the record industry and the cinema industry to provide a new revenue stream of their own. It is simply inaccurate to say that a digital copy is a perfect copy, as there are many different qualities of digital copy. The hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr. Thomas) said that the cinema is nevertheless doing well at the moment, and my right hon. Friend the Member for Islington, South and Finsbury said yes, but that will not be the case in future. I suspect that the cinema will continue to flourish owing to the simple fact that often people go to the cinema not only to see a new film, although that is part of it, but because they have a completely different experience as part of an audience in front of a large screen with digital stereo.
Mr. Chris Smith: My hon. Friend is right that it is likely that people will still want to have a night out in front of a big screen at the cinema. All the evidence of the past 20 years, especially at the time when video technology was developing, confirms that, and I would not argue against it. However, he should bear in mind that the technological ability to download movies will rapidly increase, and we shall have to take that into account.
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