House of Commons
Wednesday 26 March 2003
The House met at half-past Eleven o'clock
PRAYERS
[Mr. Speaker in the Chair]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
Transas Group Bill (By Order)
Order for Second Reading read.
To be read a Second time on Wednesday 2 April.
Oral Answers to Questions
INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
The Secretary of State was asked—
Heavily Indebted Poor Countries
1. Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam): How far UK aid and support for heavily indebted poor countries are conditional upon (a) human rights, (b) corruption and (c) governance. [104775]
The Secretary of State for International Development (Clare Short): The heavily indebted poor countries initiative is designed to lift the debt burden of the poorest countries to enable them to reform, grow their economies and provide basic services to their people. Debt relief is conditional on agreement on a poverty reduction strategy that drives forward economic and social reform.
Mr. Burstow : I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. Given that, in the six years of the scheme, only three of the 42 countries eligible have received debt stock reduction, is it not time to back the Jubilee Debt Campaign's call for full cancellation of HIPC debts and redouble efforts to assist those countries in meeting the conditions, so that they can finally break free of the shackles of debt?
Clare Short: If the hon. Gentleman's facts were true, it might well be, but in fact 26 countries have received debt reduction, seven have completed the process and $62 billion of debt has been written off. Those are very poor countries, and that is a lot of money for them—two thirds of their debt. There has been a very big expansion in their spending on public services and significant reform. Another stock of countries are not there yet, mostly because they are in conflict—Burma, Sudan, Congo—and we are trying to use the availability of debt
relief to help to bring about a peace process. Of course the initiative could be better and more generous, but it is working well.
Mr. Tom Clarke (Coatbridge and Chryston): Given my right hon. Friend's personal interest in not just debt but human rights in Rwanda, does she agree that it is still important to continue to support and provide resources for the Gacaca courts to ensure genuine reconciliation?
Clare Short: I agree with my right hon. Friend. The world owes Rwanda support because we turned away, in breach of the genocide convention, when genocide was threatened and, to all our shame, the UN was pulled out and nearly 1 million people were slaughtered under orders.
Rwanda has made enormous progress. In fact, it is becoming ready for a referendum on its new constitution and democratic elections. We are the biggest supporter of all that reform in Rwanda, but Rwanda will not be safe until there is peace in Congo and Burundi. That is in the interests of all the people of the region. We are working on all three and progress is possible, but it will require more attention.
Rev. Martin Smyth (Belfast, South): One understands that there are contentions on governance in Malawi, but will the Secretary of State express concern at the fact that hospitals in Malawi need help, which surely could be provided through non-governmental organisations?
Clare Short: I agree. Malawi is a desperately poor country and, of course, it has been affected by drought and by problems with the governance of the country, selling off food stocks in the face of drought and the Government's focus on changing the constitution to get a third term, rather than looking after the needs of their people. We are trying to drive reform in Malawi's institutions, but we have shifted some of our resources into direct provision to people. However, one-off projects do not reform a country's institutions, which is the point that the hon. Gentleman makes, and we will get back to trying to help Malawi to have better institutions and better health care as soon as we can.
British Overseas Territories
2. Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock): If she will make a statement on her Department's responsibilities for British overseas territories. [104776]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Development (Ms Sally Keeble): We continue to provide appropriate support to the overseas territories that need it. We have refocused our support to encourage local leadership and lessen the sense of dependency. Our total programme is currently worth roughly £35 million a year, and it goes mainly to St. Helena and Montserrat. We provide lower levels of support elsewhere.
Andrew Mackinlay : Will the Minister have discussions with her opposite number at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office about the fact that so many of our overseas territories are falling between the stools of
the two Departments? Will the Minister consider the parlous state in the Turks and Caicos Islands, where some of the people in the most abject poverty, with children being denied education and labour being unregulated are to found under the British Crown? It is about time that either her Department or the Foreign and Commonwealth Office got a grip on the situation, rather than allowing it to be out of sight and out of mind.
Ms Keeble: It is not right to say that many of the overseas territories fall between two stools. We provide a huge amount of support for all of them, to suit their appropriate needs, but my hon. Friend is right to highlight the problems of the people in the Turks and Caicos Islands. We are working with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office on a study of human rights issues in the overseas territories, and it will be discussed with the territories' Governments. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has also looked into the problem in respect of school placements, but I will ensure that it is raised again and that we talk about it.
Mr. Henry Bellingham (North-West Norfolk): The Secretary of State will be aware that, in the main, these territories do not want independence. They want to be treated like grown-ups. Has not the time come to look at the French solution, whereby we would integrate them into Britain and give them proper representation here and in Europe?
Ms Keeble: I would argue that my Department, which looks at economic support in particular, treats them very much as grown-ups. We are trying to provide them with sustainable economies. In the case of St. Helena and Montserrat, for example, we are looking at access and air transport needs. The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of parliamentary representation, which, as he knows, has not been this Government's policy. At present, there are no prospects of looking at that. It is, however, a responsibility of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary.
Ethiopia
3. Mr. Andy Reed (Loughborough): What representations she has received about the impact of the collapse of coffee prices on poverty reduction in Ethiopia. [104777]
The Secretary of State for International Development (Clare Short): Coffee is Ethiopia's largest export, grown mostly by small farmers. The fall in prices, which is very large, has cut their income and, of course, increased poverty. It has also reduced the capacity of Ethiopia to borrow abroad to finance essential investment: it is one of the poorest countries in the world with a GDP of $100 a head. That highlights the importance of Ethiopia diversifying exports. My Department has organised advice from UK retailers to help develop Ethiopia's horticultural sector. Prime Minister Meles is working to ensure that Ethiopia can learn from reform in this sector and then make progress in diversification in other sectors.
Mr. Reed : I thank my right hon. Friend for that reply. She clearly agrees with me that Ethiopia, as one of the
poorest countries in the world, cannot survive these devastating reductions in coffee prices. Does she agree that we need to look at radical extra measures to ensure that we can raise those prices? First, we could use the Euro750 million available in the European Union. Secondly, we could help the International Coffee Organisation to drive up standards. Thirdly—this is a radical suggestion—we could assist in destroying some of the sub-standard stocks held around the world to help drive up prices.
Clare Short: I agree that this is a serious problem. The old way of dealing with things, however, which was to compensate countries for a drop in prices, paralysed them into growing crops that were not taking them forward. That led many poor countries to be reliant on commodities that are constantly falling in price. We need changes in trade rules, so that countries can process their products, get more value added and diversify, making available aid to support them in the diversification process. I agree about the seriousness of the issue, but the way in which we deal with it must help these countries go forward, not paralyse them in declining sectors.
Mr. Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury): As the Secretary of State knows, I led an Inter-Parliamentary Union trip to Ethiopia in December, where I saw at first hand the problems created by the drought. Despite the understandable focus on Iraq, will she nevertheless assure the House that she will ensure that Ethiopia receives all the food aid that it has been promised as quickly as possible?
Clare Short: Yes, indeed. The drought is very serious. Fifteen million people are affected. We must provide support, but not in a way that destroys local agriculture. Constant handouts destroy markets and destroy recovery, and there has been too much of that in Ethiopia. We are providing big support, and I have given an absolute undertaking, with which I am sure Members on both sides of the House would agree: we must stand by the people of Iraq but not at the cost of people in need in poorer parts of the world. We will not withdraw any support from crises in Africa or from our programmes for poor people anywhere. Our support for Iraq must be additional.
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