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27 Mar 2003 : Column 516—continued
Mr. Davies: Of course those people could automatically apply to another police service in the United Kingdom, but the people whom I have in mind will have decided that they want to spend their time, careers and lives in Northern Ireland. There is already a brain drain in many fields from Northern Ireland, which worries those of us who have the interests of Northern Ireland very close to heart, and I would not want there to be a brain drain of potentially able policemen and women. It would not be a totally satisfactory answer to say, "Seek your fortune across the water." What I am trying to do, so far as possible, is encourage people to feel that there is some purpose in staying in the pool, if we create one by virtue of new clause 20, so that they can pass into the Police Service of Northern Ireland as soon as possible.
Mr. Bill Tynan (Hamilton, South): Under new clause 20, if the individual were held for 18 months, would he be paid during that period?
Mr. Davies: No, he would not; nor would he have duties to perform. Of course, he could take another job or continue with his existing activity. He would not be a member of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, but he would be assured that, as and when a vacancy opened, his name—or her name—would be brought forward automatically, to take advantage of that vacancy without any further formality or the need to pass any further test.
Mr. Davies: Of course I shall give way to the hon. Gentleman, but I do not want to give way too often because we must move on.
Mr. Beggs: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and for promoting new clause 20. Does he agree that it is absolutely ridiculous that applicants have been twice into the competition—twice into the pool—and still have not yet got a place?
Mr. Davies: Yes, I do. It is a great shame that the Police Service of Northern Ireland is losing good, potentially enthusiastic and valuable recruits and it is a great shame for individuals who had hoped for a career
in the Police Service. They would have passed the test and thus know that they were capable of doing the job, but the door would be slammed in their face.I have already set out why we must accept the higher need to ensure that we have a successful police service in Northern Ireland. We want to mitigate the sense of injustice and unfairness, and the loss of good human resources to the police. That happens under the present mechanism, which is why we tabled the new clause.
The new clause would also save public money—the Government can tell me how much—because if people pass the test but are not allowed to join the Police Service at that time, they have to take the test all over again. That is demoralising and a waste of time for them, and represents an unnecessary drain on public finances.
I set most store by pressing new clause 20 to a Division, but I should mention our other amendments in the group. Amendment No. 88 would make an assurance given by the Minister of State in Committee explicit in the Bill: that the purpose of clause 19 is to provide the ability to recruit from the Garda Siochana. Clause 19 allows the Chief Constable to recruit a person for three years under a special procedure, but it does not say that he may recruit from the Garda Siochana. We should not be afraid to say that the clause has that purpose, so the provision should be included in the Bill for the sake of transparency and honest government.
We are in favour of recruits from the Garda Siochana joining the Police Service of Northern Ireland. Such people are well qualified and trained. They would be mostly familiar with the situation in Northern Ireland and would be reasonably compatible with the service. In fact, I understand that the pay scale is lower in the Republic of Ireland, so I hope that we might find good recruits from there to address the shortage of policemen.
Rev. Ian Paisley (North Antrim): Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Davies: I shall, but it will be the last time.
Rev. Ian Paisley: Given the religious constituency of that police force, how would the hon. Gentleman strike the balance? He told us that he has gone back on what we thought his party believed in: that the rule should not be 50:50. He says that he is now prepared to wear that, but that police force could not provide the number of people to achieve that balance.
Mr. Davies: The hon. Gentleman is talking about new clause 20 rather than amendment No. 88. I believe that more nationalists and people from a Catholic and, indeed, republican background will join the Police Service of Northern Ireland. That will certainly happen if the peace process is successful, if Sinn Fein joins the Policing Board and if other prerequisites are met. I hope that it will happen because it is the whole purpose of the exercise. Indeed, we might get a rush of many applicants who were either intimidated from applying by Sinn Fein-IRA or who were reluctant to apply until the peace process had achieved the comprehensive and definitive settlement that we want. I hope that many people will
come forward after that happens. A pool of people from Protestant and other backgrounds could be absorbed into the PSNI immediately because of a new wave of Catholic applications. That is another reason why new clause 20 should be supported, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues will do that.I shall return to amendment No. 88. It would be desirable to recruit people from south of the border and, indeed, from England, Wales and Scotland—from anywhere in order to meet the pressing crisis of numbers.
Amendment No. 89 is designed to kill two birds with one stone so that, when we successfully recruit Catholics from the Garda in the Republic, they qualify as Catholic entrants for the purposes of section 46 of the Police (Northern Ireland) Act 2000. That would enable us immediately to recruit Protestants from the pool that would be created by new clause 20. So the measures fit together well.
4.30 pm
To be frank, however, it struck me that the amendment might not be technically effective in achieving that purpose. We must also take account of the possibility that Protestants or other non-Catholics from the Republic of Ireland might want to be appointed, and they would add to the Protestant quota. That would be fine, but the amendment might not be effective in achieving that. For that reason, we will not press it to a vote, but I thought it worth while explaining the spirit in which it was tabled.
Mr. Mallon: I shall attempt to concentrate on new clause 4, mainly because the essence of the other amendments and new clauses has been debated at great length, not just in terms of the Bill's contents, but in terms of many other pieces of legislation that preceded it.
I am intrigued by some approaches to the new clause. As hard as I try, I simply cannot understand how it is a Trojan horse, or how it is either a Machiavellian Government device to cover up the fact that 50:50 is not working—that implication might not be deliberate, but it is hanging about—or a devious way to get hordes of Catholics into the policing service by the back door. I suppose those concerns could lead to the Trojan horse syndrome, but I fail to understand why people should be fearful. The board is allowed to appoint a specified number of constables who have specified policing skills. The new clause is not a device to allow people in by the back door or a device to cover up the fact that people are not joining. Instead, it provides a means of making specified expertise available in the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
It follows that those with specified skills have undergone training. Wherever they come from outside Northern Ireland, they must have undergone training to give them a specified skill that is required and desired within the PSNI. That is crucial. The 50:50 element comes into play at the point of training. It is not a clever device to get people into the police service by the back door; nor is it a clever device to compensate for a failure in the 50:50 process. It is quite the opposite. It is a means of ensuring that the professional Police Service of Northern Ireland has access to the highest specified
policing skills. It is right that that is done, and it is right that it be done not just in the interests of good policing, but to meet a gap in skills caused, I admit, by the retirement of many serving police officers as a result of changes and the compensation package recommended by Patten.I should like to touch on another need. We tend to be a very insular people in Northern Ireland: we tend to look inward at our problems and we often assume that we are the only people in the world who have problems. That is hardly the case. It will be a distinct advantage to have people with skills coming from outside the Police Service of Northern Ireland to bring another dimension to the attitude within policing and towards policing. Such input is facilitated by new clause 4. The more that happens, the better it will be for serving police officers in Northern Ireland and the better for public attitudes to policing on the ground. I greatly welcome the provision. It is technically correct and right that those specified skills are brought into the police service.
I find it amusing to hear some of the fears that have developed recently for expediency purposes or whatever. They are derived directly from Patten, who is explicit about them. I see that the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr. Campbell) is becoming rather excited, so I shall continue to give him reason for his excitement by quoting what Patten said. He clearly recognised that many Catholic people from Northern Ireland who, for various reasons, were serving in police services in other parts of the world might want to come back and bring their skills back with them. That is happening in every form of industry at present. Patten recommended—and I quote, for the further excitement of the hon. Member for East Londonderry—
- "that the recruitment agency should seek to identify such officers, contact them and encourage them . . . to apply for positions in the Northern Ireland police."
Lateral entry is another element of the legislation. I welcome provisions on that, because the subject should be viewed for its potential benefits. I quote Patten again. He stated:
- "Lateral entry of experienced officers from other police services, and secondments or recruitments from non-police organisations should be actively encouraged."
I recommend that we reconsider another of Patten's recommendations, which is sometimes overlooked:
- "recruitments from non-police organisations should be actively encouraged".
I shall not touch on the other amendments and new clauses, as I shall not support them. I conclude by setting out some of the safeguards in the new clause to show that it is not a fiendish plot. The board must agree unanimously to the authorisation. I understand that it was the board itself that made that requirement. The provisions apply only for two years, after which the board must again reach unanimous agreement on them. There is thus no way in which the procedure can be manipulated by either the Government or the Chief Constable.
The crucial point is that the Chief Constable must make a case to the board that the police service needs persons with specific skills and there are no such people in its ranks. The board will then be asked to facilitate the Chief Constable's request by going outside the Police Service of Northern Ireland to bring in people who are already trained to exercise the necessary skills. The board must be shown that the need cannot be supplied from within the service.
The proposal is good. Apart from its practical advantages, it will introduce new thinking not only to policing in Northern Ireland but to attitudes to policing. Above all, however, it sets out specific requirements.
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