---

27 Mar 2003 : Column 548—continued

6.36 pm

Rev. Ian Paisley: In a very important debate, the Prime Minister spelled out his principles in respect of terrorism. He said that

"weakness in the face of a threat from a tyrant is the surest way not to peace, but—unfortunately—to conflict."

IRA-Sinn Fein are tyrants. Members of certain Roman Catholic families were shot. Men know where they are buried, but they will not even attempt to get the decomposing bodies to allow them a Christian burial. Everyone in Northern Ireland knows that that is the case. If that is not tyranny, I do not know what is.

A very noble sergeant of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, who served in Newry, was shot dead by the IRA. The night before he was to be buried in the family plot, it was made clear to the undertaker and to the priest that his body would not rest in the family plot. It had to be taken from the Warrenpoint area to Banbridge to be buried.

The diabolical hatred and venom of tyranny is seen in many such cases. To bring it up to date, I mention what happened in my constituency at Ballymena when a young person from the Roman Catholic Church was recruited to the new police structures. An attempt was made to kill him, his father and his mother. Literature is spread around places of work inciting people to treat former members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary the way they were treated when they were in uniform and to treat every member of the new police service in the same way.

What the Prime Minister said, rightly, are my principles. He said that looking back over the years

"the truth is that we have been victims of our own desire to placate the implacable, to persuade towards reason the utterly unreasonable, and to hope that there was some genuine intent to do good in a regime whose mind is in fact evil."—[Official Report, 18 March 2003; Vol. 401, c. 765.]

I speak in this House on behalf of the people of Northern Ireland, and on five occasions I have had the majority vote across the whole of the Province, not just in North Antrim. No assurance tonight from Ministers will satisfy those people, given what the Prime Minister told me in this very House when the acts of completion were being discussed.

On 27 November, I asked if he was aware that

"in the past two days my party has met the Minister with responsibility for security in Northern Ireland and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. We put one question to both: what is an act of completion? Does it consist of IRA-Sinn Fein repudiating and ceasing violence and being disbanded, or does it simply mean that they make a statement that they will give up violence? Can the Prime Minister tell us what he believes it means?"

That was a clear question.

The Prime Minister said:

"I can. It is not merely a statement, a declaration or words. It means giving up violence completely in a way that satisfies"

not the Government, the Policing Board or we who have responsibility for the government of Northern Ireland but

"everyone and gives them confidence that the IRA has ceased its campaign, and enables us to move the democratic process forward, with every party that wants to be in government abiding by the same democratic rules."—[Official Report, 27 November 2002; Vol. 395, c. 309.]

27 Mar 2003 : Column 549

Before the House accepts this Bill, it should hear what the Republicans have to say. I am glad that the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) said what she said. She made it clear that she was with the Government and agreed with what they were doing on many things that I and members of her own party would not agree with. However, she has become partly disillusioned because of what is happening. If it is getting through to her, how do people feel in Northern Ireland tonight?

We listened to the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh (Mr. Mallon) yesterday, and he made it clear, as a prophet, that we would soon come back to deal with even more serious matters.

What happened at Weston Park? Why have not the people of Northern Ireland been told? If the process is for the good of all the people of Northern Ireland, why were we not told what happened? The leader of the Ulster Unionist party said that he did not know what was agreed at Weston Park, but this I do know: I am a member of the Stormont Assembly, and the leader of the SDLP in the Stormont Assembly said on the record that he was told by an official when he protested at Weston Park, "You have no guns." At Weston Park, there was a betrayal and a surrender to tyranny.

Mr. Mallon: I can help the hon. Gentleman. What happened at Weston Park in relation to policing is published in full in the revised implementation plan, which is there for everyone to see. I regard that as an act of completion in its totality. It has always been my belief that there should be devolution, and that, for it to work, the powers related to policing and justice should be devolved, because it will then come of age. That was not what happened at Weston Park, but what happened at Weston Park in relation to policing is on record in the revised review.

Rev. Ian Paisley: Is the hon. Gentleman therefore saying that nothing more than that is in the latest measures that we are being asked to put our seal on tonight? Is it just Weston Park, full stop?

David Burnside: And Hillsborough.

Rev. Ian Paisley: Indeed. Is the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh saying that nothing was added? We know very well from prominent sources of information that many things were added. The Prime Minister—and the Taoiseach and his friends—had to come and sit for long hours because something was being added, and I think that we are entitled to know what it was.

Mr. Mallon: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. I repeat that I regard what was agreed at Weston Park about policing as closure. May I assure him that, if anything was added to that, either at Hillsborough or subsequently, I would regard it as an absolute breach of negotiating principle?

Rev. Ian Paisley: We have heard Government spokesmen telling us what the people of Northern Ireland feel, but they do not know. They have been there

27 Mar 2003 : Column 550

on a few occasions, but they do not know the mind of the people. If they had a mind to know it, they could have organised a selection process and put their own candidates into the field. When I was speaking in the Chamber yesterday, a man shouted from the Labour Benches, "What about democracy?", yet his own party will not even recruit in Northern Ireland and ask the people what they feel about—

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Will the hon. Gentleman please relate his remarks to the Third Reading of the Bill?

Rev. Ian Paisley: I am sorry that I allowed myself to go down the path of the person who interrupted me—or whom I allowed to interrupt me. All that I am saying tonight is that the vast majority of law-abiding citizens—Roman Catholics and Protestants—are very concerned about what is taking place, and about what is going to take place in the future. I know Roman Catholics very well, and I serve them very well, as they all—even their priests—have said. Many of them feel that it is a stigma that they are not permitted to get a job entirely on merit. The House needs to recognise that.

The one thing that the House must learn is that it can pass this legislation. The Taoiseach and the Prime Minister will come to tell the rest of us who do not know—I do not know to this day—what happened at Hillsborough. I asked to have a look at the document and was refused, but the gunmen in the IRA who will be at the conference this week know. Why should a gunman who has slain policemen know what the future holds for my people when I do not? No Member on the Labour Benches would tolerate that, yet we are asked to tolerate it. If the democratic rights of the people of Northern Ireland are not recognised in the House, upon the House will come problems. These things are very serious.

I want to make one final point. A huge cache of arms was found in the Ormeau road this week. The police usually tell us that such arms belong to dissident republicans. This week, however, they made a statement saying that they were the arms of the Provisional IRA. Those arms are not the usual arms; they are up to date, purchased after the Provisional IRA signed the ceasefire. I am asked tonight to go back to my people and say that the law of the land now is this new policing for Northern Ireland, which contains proposals hammered out behind closed doors and partly revealed in the document that preceded this debate. I say to this House that no democratically elected Member should be asked by any Government to sell something to their people unless they know what it is. However, we will have to wait until the two Prime Ministers come to our Province and let some of us know a little of what is in this document.

I want to make one other point. I was told by the previous Secretary of State that if the Democratic Unionist party were to join the Policing Board there would be no cries for IRA-Sinn Fein to join it; that there would be no campaign, run by the Government, to get them to join; that IRA-Sinn Fein would have to wait until the election took place, and then re-appointments would be made. I asked him, "Is that your word?", and he said, "Yes, that is my word." Yet the board was

27 Mar 2003 : Column 551

hardly in operation, when the call went out: Sinn Fein must be on this board. Evidently, the new Chief Constable thinks that it is his business to get Sinn Fein on to the board.

During yesterday's debate, the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) asked what will happen, but she knows what happened in her own party, and where it stands.

---