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28 Mar 2003 : Column 568—continued
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order. Will the hon. Gentleman bring his intervention to a close?
Bob Spink: Nor does the investment that the Government are giving to renewables indicate that that the targets would be achieved.
Brian White: I do not accept that we should set targets that we know that we will achieve. We should set targets that are challenging and stretching and that require a change in what we do in order to achieve them. If we simply set targets that we knew we could achieve, it would not achieve what the hon. Gentleman wants. The targets that we set need to be demanding. It is interesting that one of the things that the Select Committee considered was that, in the private sector, people who achieve 80 per cent. of their targets are considered to have done really well, whereas, in the public sector, people who achieve 80 per cent. are slaughtered because they have not achieved the remaining 20 per cent. The key point is to set targets that change people's behaviour and the way in which they operate. We must allow renewables to grow and become a far bigger proportion of the energy sources in this country. Whether it is 9 per cent., 10 per cent., or whatever figure people choose, is less important than the fact that the target will change behaviour and the way in which people perceive things.
Mrs. Anne Campbell (Cambridge): Like many Members here, I also support the Bill. A moment ago, my hon. Friend talked about barriers to progress. Does he agree that, over the past few years, one of the problems has been objections to planning applications
for wind farms? We must change our attitude to wind farms and examine much more carefully what benefits offshore wind can bring.
Brian White: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. One of the great underused resources is wind power. In fact, the PIU report said that Britain has the greatest potential for renewable energy of any country in Europe. I had lunch with a constituent who is a property developer and is involved in schemes in Germany, and he told me that, as part of the conditions of a scheme that he is working on in Germany, he has to install a solar power plant to provide renewable energy for the development. The Department of Trade and Industry, however, primarily has a policy of capital grants. The policy in Germany, however, is to deliver that extra energy through green tariffs and low-interest loans and through the planning system. Germany has achieved the 200 MW target to which the DTI aspires by 2012. It is therefore possible. My hon. Friend raises a key issue—it is not simply about money; it is also about removing the barriers in the system through regulation and other measures. Targets, as I said, are key because they transform the way in which a Department operates.
Mr. Andrew Dismore (Hendon): Like many Members, I am also here to support the Bill, but I am concerned that we should not throw the baby out with the bath water. When we talk about projects such as wind farms, it is important that we are environmentally sensitive, for example, to wilderness areas, few of which remain, and that we do not end up destroying our natural environment for the purposes of energy, as has happened in some parts of continental Europe.
Brian White: My hon. Friend highlights a problem that needs to be addressed, but it can be addressed through the planning system. It is a question of reconciling different interests and differing pressures, and that system has been very good, over 50 years, at balancing those different needs. My hon. Friend can therefore rest assured that having a wind farm policy is not irreconcilable with good environmental practice.
Mr. Crispin Blunt (Reigate): That issue affects many people throughout the country who are presented with the prospect of a wind farm on their doorstep, often in areas of outstanding natural beauty. At what stage of the planning system does the hon. Gentleman think that the real decision should be taken? Who should make the trade-off between the environmental impact on the local community and the wider energy needs of the country?
Brian White: Local plans, such as county structure plans or unitary development plans, are the key to that debate. They would set a framework that would last for the duration of the plan, which may be 10 or 15 years. A debate about different types of renewable energy should be held during the public inquiry that forms part of the planning process. The local community could give its input and express its concerns about such things as the natural beauty of the landscape, which my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) talked about, yet make the point that it also needs renewable and green energy.
Mr. Gareth Thomas (Harrow, West): Does my hon. Friend accept that the forces of conservatism that have
tried to use the planning process to delay decisions on eminently sensible wind farms must be prevented from inhibiting the development of such a sustainable energy industry? Does he also accept that serious planning reform is needed urgently so that quicker decisions are made, although the local community should nevertheless have a say on whether those projects go ahead?
Brian White: I was chair of the Local Government Association's planning committee before I entered Parliament. The committee tried to speed up the planning process to deal with the issues that my hon. Friend mentions. I am well aware of the concerns that he raises.
The Bill focuses on only five areas of sustainable energy. I could have made it a lot wider but I had to draw the boundary somewhere, so it does not include transport.
Mrs. Jackie Lawrence (Preseli Pembrokeshire): Does my hon. Friend agree that hon. Members' comments reflect the incorrect perception in the public's eyes that renewable energy means only wind farms? There are many other types of renewable energy, such as biomass. I am especially interested in how that may help us to reach sustainable energy targets and encourage our farmers to diversify, which would secure a good future for farming in this country.
Brian White: My hon. Friend makes an important point. I talked to representatives of BP a little while ago who told me that the company could produce biofuel in its existing refineries. However, there is a regulatory problem due to Customs and Excise. My Bill would highlight such problems and allow for the removal of barriers. I agree that making progress on biomass and biofuels is a key issue.
The Bill covers not only renewables, but combined heat and power, energy efficiency, carbon dioxide emissions and fuel poverty. I shall outline how it would address that, and I shall try to be brief because many hon. Members may wish to contribute to the debate. Clause 1 requires the Government to produce an annual report on the steps they are taking to reach the targets. I chose my wording to give maximum flexibility on the way in which they produce the report, which would highlight and identify problems. The Government have committed themselves to a reporting duty in the White Paper and my Bill would give statutory backing to that pledge.
There are four key areas of activity, the first of which is renewables. I originally planned for the Bill to cover only the Government's existing commitments, but I changed the target for the amount of energy to be produced from renewable sources by 2020 from 20 to 25 per cent. on the basis of three key reports from the Sustainable Development Commission, the Institute for Public Policy Research and Future Energy Solutions. They all argued that 25 per cent. was a better figure, and although the Government might want to amend the target back to 20 per cent. in Committee, there is a strong argument for why the Government should be challenged to adopt a target of 25 per cent.
I am glad that the White Paper reaffirmed the targets for CHP by 2010 and 2020. It is important to send a clear signal to the CHP industry because after two years of
waiting, it urgently needs a series of measures that reflect more robust support from the Government. It is rather disappointed by the renewables obligation in the White Paper despite the fact that Ministers have stated that CHP is one of the most cost-effective technologies. The Bill would remove the renewables obligation from CHP because it is one of the cheapest carbon-saving technologies, as the PIU report identified. The White Paper could have promised more for CHP and I hope that we will return to that in Committee.
Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch): What sanctions would the hon. Gentleman introduce if a CHP target were missed? The Government have missed the CHP target but they do not appear to be liable for sanctions as a result. What is the point of having targets if there is no sanction for missing them?
Brian White: The Bill would require the production of a report within a year of its enactment and annual reports thereafter. If the Government are forced to produce such reports, it will become apparent when targets are missed. Any action that follows will come from the House. It is important to have transparency and for information to be available publicly. We must understand why targets are missed because there might be valid reasons for that. Targets might be exceeded, so it is important that the whole picture is available. If targets are missed, it is up to us to introduce measures to change the situation.
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