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2 Apr 2003 : Column 922—continued
Local Government (Independent Funding Commission)
Tony Baldry accordingly presented a Bill to establish an Independent Funding Commission to have responsibility for allocating grants and funds to local authorities in England and Wales and replacing the standard spending assessment powers of Ministers; and for connected purposes: And the same was read the First time; and ordered to be read a Second time on Friday 11 July, and to be printed. [Bill 86].
Points of Order
12.43 pm
Harry Cohen (Leyton and Wanstead): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. You are the upholder of Back Benchers' rights and you will know that there was a promise last Thursday of an early statement about the Prime Minister's visit to the United States and the United Nations. At Question Time today, the Prime Minister said that he would make one statement before the Easter recess begins on 14 April. That is clearly inappropriate. Prime Minister's Question Time is not a proper venue for the majority of Back Benchers to be able to question the Prime Minister about the war. For example, today, it took until 12.18 to get past Question 2, and then, of course, the Prime Minister had to run through the other eight questions. Most of the questions from the Leader of the Opposition were not oppositional at all, and there was no chance to ask the difficult questions that many Back Benchers want to ask. I, for example, want to ask the Prime Minister a question about British troops being executed, because there has been no opportunity to get clarification about that.
Mr. Speaker, do you not think it reasonable that Back Benchers should have the opportunity to get clarification on issues such as that? Do you not think it reasonable at a time of war that the Prime Minister should make more than just one statement in a fortnight? Do you not think it reasonable that he should fulfil the promise given by his acting Leader of the House? As the defender of Back Benchers' rights, what are you going to do about that?
Mr. Speaker: It seems to me that the hon. Gentleman is advancing an argument rather than raising a point of order, but I agree with him about one thing. He is correct: I am the defender of Back Benchers' rights, and I can say, modest as I am, that I do a very good job in defending them. I will continue to bear it in mind that whenever a statement is made on these matters I should look to the hon. Gentleman and see what I can do for him.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Will you look into the possibility of allocating one of our parliamentary television channels to one of the Arab channels, such as al-Jazeera? We have 24 television channels, three of which are devoted to sport. I think it important during a war to see what the Arabs are viewing—what images they are receiving from the Arab channels. It would be much appreciated if, in the interests of informing Members more fully, one of our channels was given to al-Jazeera.
Mr. Speaker: The hon. Lady may realise that other people besides me are involved when it comes to the parliamentary channels. I understand that the House of
Lords is entitled to a view on this, and the Information Committee might also have to look into it. I think that the best thing the hon. Lady can do is write to me giving all the reasons why she thinks this should happen.
Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. In my view you are indeed a superb upholder of Back Benchers' rights, especially in the difficulties of wartime. If I may say so without slurring the dead, you are far better than George Thomas.
I do not know, Mr. Speaker, whether you have had an opportunity to read the minutes of the Procedure Committee on Prime Minister's questions. One of the problems that arises is the difficulty of challenging prime ministerial assertions. Today was a case in point. The Prime Minister asserted that Kerbala had been destroyed by Saddam's forces. I can only say that when I was in Kerbala in 1994, the imam of the great mosque of the Shia explained in detail that in fact a stray bomb had caused the damage that we saw being repaired, lovingly and with great skill, by local people on wooden scaffolding.
It is very difficult to establish the sources of prime ministerial assertions. I hope that when the Procedure Committee's report is published some attention will be given to the subject.
Ann Clwyd: Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: Further to the same point of order?
Yesterday Dr. Hamid al-Bayati, who represents the Shia population in London, came to the House to speak to us. In his speech he said that various sites in areas mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) had been destroyed previously by the Iraqi regime. I certainly did not understand from what the Prime Minister said that those sites had been destroyed recently by the coalition forces. I think that I am more prepared to listen to the authentic voice of a Shia representative in this country.
Mr. Speaker: I think that I am beginning to hear arguments rather than points of order.
Let me say this to the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell). I understand that the Procedure Committee is looking into the matters that he raised. It is looking into several matters concerning the House, including Question Time. I look forward to the publication of its report, which I shall read with interest.
Harry Cohen: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. I want to put it on record that I endorse the view that you are an excellent defender of Back Benchers' rights. I do not want my earlier comments to imply the opposite.
Mr. Speaker: It is too late. [Laughter.]
Criminal Justice Bill Programme (No. 4)
12.50 pm
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary for the Home Department (Hilary Benn): I beg to move,
- That, in accordance with the resolution of the Programming Committee of 1st April and pursuant to the Programme Order of 4th December 2002 relating to the Criminal Justice Bill, as amended by the Orders of 4th February and 5th March:
(1) Proceedings on consideration shall be taken on each of the three days allowed by the Order as shown in the second column of the following Table, and shall be taken in the order so shown.
(2) Proceedings on the first day shall be brought to a conclusion six and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on that day or at the conclusion of the proceedings set down for that day, whichever is the earlier.
(3) The proceedings shown in the second column of the table shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the time specified in the third column.
(4) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion six and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill on the third day.
| Day | Proceedings | Time for conclusion of proceedings |
| First day | Clauses 1 to 6, Clause 8, Schedule 1, New Clauses relating to Part 3, Clauses 18 to 22, New Clauses relating to Part 4, Clause 23, Schedule 2, Clauses 24 to 26, New Clauses relating to Part 8, Clauses 44 to 49 | Two and a half hours after the commencement of the proceedings on a motion relating to this resolution |
| Clauses 99 to 120, Schedule 6, Clauses 121 to 126 | Three and a half hours after the commencement of those proceedings | |
| New Clauses relating to Part 11, Clauses 82 to 98, Schedule 5 | Six and a half hours after the commencement of such proceedings | |
| Second day | New Clauses relating to Part 1, Clause 7, Clauses 9 and 10, New Clauses relating to Part 2, Clauses 11 to 17, New Clauses relating to Part 5, Clauses 27 to 34, New Clauses relating to Part 6, Clause 35, Schedule 3, New Clauses relating to Part 7, Clauses 36 to 43, New Clauses relating to Part 9, Clauses 50 to 62, New Clauses relating to Part 10, Clause 63, Schedule 4, Clauses 64 to 81 | Six and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill |
| Third day | New Clauses relating to Part 12, Clauses 127 to 163, Schedule 7, Clause 164, Schedule 8, Clauses 165 to 171, Schedule 9, Clauses 172 to 176, Schedule 10, Clauses 177 to 201, Schedule 11, Clauses 202 to 206, Schedule 12, Clauses 207 to 211, Schedules 13 and 14, Clause 212, Schedule 15, Clauses 213 to 221, Schedule 16, Clauses 222 to 246, Schedule 17, Clause 247, Schedule 18, Clause 248, Schedules 19 and 20, Clauses 249 to 251, Schedule 21, Clause 252, Schedule 22, Clauses 253 and 254, Schedule 23, Clauses 255 to 258, Schedule 24, Clauses 259 to 265, Schedule 25, Clauses 266 to 268, Schedule 26, Clauses 269 to 273, Schedule 27, Clause 274, Schedule 28, Clause 275, Schedule 29, Clauses 276 to 280, remaining New Clauses, New Schedules, any remaining proceedings on the Bill | Five and a half hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Bill |
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