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7 Apr 2003 : Column 56—continued
Lembit Öpik: I thank the hon. Lady for the offer of membership of her party, which I shall put to the good people of Montgomeryshire when I have a moment. The point that the hon. Lady raises is surely exactly why this proposal could work. I accept that it puts huge pressure on the Ulster Unionist party, but it also puts pressure on the Democratic Unionist party, who could be criticised by the people they represent for not participating, and, more than anything, it puts pressure on Ministers to work in partnership with those parties. The hon. Lady has described a mechanism through which all the parties will be tied into making decisions, and through which pressure will be put on Ministers.
Lady Hermon: This point will be helpful and will address the point that the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Lembit Öpik) has made: the Government must make it clear this afternoon that any order to lift suspension will be made only after acts of completion. To be frank, no order to lift suspension will be worth making unless there have been acts of completion. The Government should also make it clear that the statement of the Secretary of State on 26 March still stands even if we make the changes that we may make this afternoon. The Government must make it clear that commencement orders will not come into effect unless we have agreement that acts of completion have been dealt with. It is hugely important that a clear message is sent out—suspension will be lifted only after acts of completion and, therefore, commencement orders for changes to DPPs and the Belfast sub-groups will be made only after acts of completion. Such a message would be very helpful indeed in clearing away any suspicions that we have given ground too quickly on this issue.
Jane Kennedy: As I said in my opening comments, the amendment that we are considering this afternoon builds into statute the extra consideration that the Secretary of State must give. The institutions in a power-sharing Executive must be functioning before he would consider the changes that the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) has been speaking about. She refers to the pressure that she thinks will be placed on her party. I accept that there is a perception that the Ulster Unionist party would come under particular pressure—indeed, the point was raised by one of the hon. Lady's hon. Friends in the other place. She refers to the party's policy, which would prevent it co-operating in a policing board if Sinn Fein were to join in this context.
I understand the depth of the sensitivities, emotions and feelings on this issue. However, when I have talked to all of the Unionist parties—and not just that of the hon. Lady—and to representatives of the police through the police associations, I have always done so in the context of a Sinn Fein party and a Provisional IRA that are reforming and moving away from paramilitary activity, and that have put paramilitary activity behind them and are prepared to embrace policing as the hon. Lady and I, and you Mr. Deputy Speaker, would understand it. There has been a willingness on the part of, I think, almost everybody, including the Democratic Unionist party, to say that they would consider—in that context—working co-operatively in the interests of the police, of policing and of Northern Ireland. That does not mean that things are any less difficult.
The hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford (Mr. Davies) talked about his disappointment that an amendment was not carried in another place. I do not intend to comment on that—I shall restrict my comments to the amendment that we are debating today—but I am grateful to hon. Members representing all parties on both sides of the House for the thoughtful, constructive and detailed consideration given to the Bill. There has been genuine co-operation here and in another place in working together to improve the Bill in a spirit of seeking to assist the process, and the Government are grateful to both Houses for that.
Last week, I met police officers in Dungannon, who police in an extremely difficult security environment, and we discussed such issues in a very open and frank exchange of views. There is no question that trust in the Governments and political parties has to be restored. There is no question that police officers must have confidence if they are to take forward these reforms, as we seek to make this final step that will involve the fullest implementation of the Belfast agreement. That was starkly illustrated to me by those very genuine police officers, who expressed their deeply held views.
It has been one of the greatest privileges of my political career to work with the highly professional, dedicated police officers, who work in that very difficult environment in Northern Ireland and who put aside even these most difficult issues to work together. Indeed, they are prepared to work with those whom they find it very difficult to work with, but they do so in the spirit of working towards the benefit of everyone in Northern Ireland.
The hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford talked about the potential for doom and the gloom that may hang over the Assembly. Of course, we may spend time considering that, but he is wrong in the sense that the Secretary of State is not required to restore the institutions before dissolving them. However, it is difficult at this stage to say exactly what will happen. It is important for the House to bear in mind the fact that a great deal of work is still being done and a great deal remains to be completed before we move into the completely new environment that we are seeking to establish.
The date for dissolution was set for 28 April, to give the parties the maximum time possible to reflect on the shared understanding presented by both Governments,
and it is important that the parties have as much space as possible to consider the way forward. The hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford commented on what may happen. We all spend time considering what may happen and what circumstances may apply. All that we can say at the moment is that we expect the two Prime Ministers to return to Northern Ireland within the next week to publish their proposals. At that time, all those involved can say whether they accept and endorse those proposals.We do not know what the IRA or any paramilitary group will do, but, obviously, every hon. Member hopes that everyone will engage in the acts of completion that we have struggled to define in considering the Bill.
Lady Hermon: Will the Minister clarify an issue that has also caused considerable disquiet at home? Let us suppose that the suspension is not lifted, that the Assembly is dissolved at the point that she mentions and that the election takes place on 29 May. Is there any point in holding an election at the end of May if we cannot guarantee that the Assembly could work on 30 or 31 May? Will the Government make it absolutely clear that they intend to hold the election on 29 May come what may?
Jane Kennedy: That is absolutely our intention. We have made that commitment and there is agreement that that should happen, but there is no guarantee about what may happen as a result. There is no guarantee about anything that may happen between now and the election date itself.
5.45 pm
As for what we mean by acts of completion, I think the hon. Gentleman was wrong to say that the Government had indicated that they might accept somewhat less than what would be acceptable elsewhere. It is important to remember what the Prime Minister said in his Belfast speech in October. He made it absolutely clear that the paramilitary organisations must end their violence, their preparations for violence and their planning for violence, and that it must be a complete and permanent end. While I accept that there have been a great many questions about that definition, I think it is comprehensive.
Mr. Quentin Davies: This matter is so important that we had better be precise. I did not say that the Government had indicated that they would accept something less than complete decommissioning and complete disbandment. Thank God, they have not said in advance that they would accept something less, and I pray that they never will accept something less. I spoke, in fact, of the danger of not referring to the completion of decommissioning and disbandment and preferring to use some intermediate symbolic term—some abstraction such as "acts of completion", with all the problems of definition that I mentioned. I said that it might give someone the impression—a false impression, I trust—that the Government could settle for something less. Were that danger to materialise—were anyone to suppose that the Government might settle for something
less—the chance of securing what we need to complete the settlement would, I am afraid, disappear. I have never suggested—
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman has made his point.
Jane Kennedy: I agree with the vast majority of what the hon. Gentleman has said. It is indeed a question of carrying all the parties with us.
The hon. Gentleman pressed me on the issue of a statement to the House. He will appreciate that I have no authority to give him a commitment now, but we have heard his comments. We will talk to colleagues about what has been said today, and I will tell my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State how strongly the hon. Gentleman feels.
I am grateful for the latitude you have allowed, Mr. Deputy Speaker, in letting us deal with issues that are not defined specifically by the amendment. I hope that President Bush will encourage all parties to endorse the way forward proposed by the British and Irish Governments, and that everyone will become involved in the carrying out of acts of completion on all sides. We are taking nothing for granted. The President's stay today and tomorrow shows how important this week is for Northern Ireland, and the influence of the United States Government can never be underestimated.
This is indeed a critical week for Northern Ireland. It is, I think, the most important week since the Good Friday agreement. It gives us our chance to implement the rest of that agreement in one final step, something that not just those of us who represent constituencies in England, Wales and Scotland hope to achieve.
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