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11 Apr 2003 : Column 514—continued
Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East): I am sure that my right hon. Friend is aware of the report of the Select Committee on Science and Technology on science education for 14 to 19-year-olds. I hope that he will take note of its recommendations because it is important to get children of that age interested in science and engineering so that they pursue those skills at university. The current science curriculum for that age group is a little out of date.
Mr. Clarke: My hon. Friend is right. I have not only studied the Select Committee's report, but given evidence to it with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry on precisely the points that my hon. Friend raises. Unless we get science education in schools right, with proper resources and a proper curriculum, we simply will not be able to encourage young people to stay on. A set of initiatives on that is already making a difference but I take my hon. Friend's point about the curriculum for that age range. We must ensure that science is an attractive, exciting and engaging discipline for young people.
We have a substantial programme in higher education for bringing employers and education together in the interests of the economy.
My final point deals with lifelong learning. We need to attack the basic skills problem in this country: between 7 million and 8 million people do not have basic skills to level 2. That is scandalous, since the world of work cannot operate in the way in which it needs to function, and we will not be as competitive if that position continues. We have launched a significant programme that involves working with employers and trade unions.
We also need to attack level 2 plus. The world of work is changing so fast—technology is moving so quickly and ideas are developing so rapidly—that whatever the skills one has acquired at the age of 21, they will not be the same as those that are needed at the age of 60 at the end of one's working life. That is true for our generation and will be even more so for future generations. Lifelong learning, the role of universities in that and employers' allocation of time for their staff to undertake such learning are vital.
We were therefore delighted to announce the extension of the union learning fund, which has supported more than 350 projects, ranging from
tackling basic skills needs to continuing professional development. I visited several projects and can speak of the genuine exhilaration that people feel about what needs to be done. The union learning fund has also helped to establish and train a national network of more than 4,500 union learning representatives, who promote learning in the work place, especially among those who have basic skills needs. We have announced in the Budget an increase of £3 million a year for those schemes because we believe that they are a critical way in which to engage people. There will also be a general benefit for the overall modernisation programme, because the more the trade union representatives engage with the issues that their companies have to deal with, the better they will be able to protect their members' interests as the necessary processes of change proceed. I believe that the Government can claim to have a coherent strategy for promoting skills throughout life.
Mr. Colin Challen (Morley and Rothwell): I wonder whether my right hon. Friend can allay the fears of my constituents who have read scare stories in the right-wing press and are concerned about the level of public borrowing. Will he describe the impact that a 20 per cent. cut would have on the work that his Department is doing? [Interruption.]
Mr. Clarke: I am sorry to hear groans from the Conservative Benches, because my hon. Friend has put his finger on a critical point. In each area that I have described—schools, 14-to-19 provision, skills, higher education, lifelong learning—we need two things. First, we need the commitment of people in the education service, employers and the population as a whole; secondly, we need the resources to put that commitment into effect. I cannot believe that any political party could possibly intend to cut 20 per cent. out of each of those budgets.
Adam Price (East Carmarthen and Dinefwr): I wonder whether the Secretary of State can allay the fears of my constituents who have read stories in the left-wing press—I refer, of course, to this morning's Financial Times—about the proposals for regional pay scales in the public sector. Will the right hon. Gentleman reassure us that teachers in Wales, the north of England and Scotland will not be paid any less than teachers in the south of England?
Mr. Clarke: The hon. Gentleman will be aware that the education system in Wales is devolved. He might want his friends in the Assembly to have something to say about this.
Adam Price: Pay is not devolved.
Mr. Clarke: I am well aware that pay is not devolved, but education is. The fact is that we already have variable pay across the United Kingdom for public servants and for teachers. In London, the teachers pay review body, with the support of the Government, recently gave a significantly higher settlement to teachers in inner London—quite rightly, in my opinion—because of the clearly different cost of living here. That debate has to happen, but I want to return to the question of resources.
Gregory Barker (Bexhill and Battle): Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Clarke: I will not give way just at this second, no.
I hope that the hon. Member for Ashford (Mr. Green) will confirm in his response exactly what Conservative party policy is on cutting public spending by 20 per cent. His colleagues, the shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition, are both on record quite clearly and publicly speaking about cutting public spending by 20 per cent.
Gregory Barker: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. David Wilshire (Spelthorne): Will the Secretary of State give way?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal): Order. The Secretary of State clearly does not wish to give way.
Mr. Clarke: It was agreed earlier that we would try to speak for about 20 minutes each, and I want to keep to that because I know that many people want to speak. I shall come to my conclusion now, but I thought that it was important to establish that my hon. Friend the Member for Morley and Rothwell (Mr. Challen) had made a correct observation earlier.
We have a coherent strategy for skills in the economy, and we believe that that is vital for the country as a whole. We have established the partnerships necessary to put it into effect, and we are revitalising the culture of the relationship between employment and education. We are also committing the resources to make it happen, and I hope that our proposals will command the support of the whole House.
10.3 am
Mr. Damian Green (Ashford): The Secretary of State said, rightly, at the beginning of his 28-minute speech that it was appropriate to discuss his responsibilities as part of the Budget debate. They clearly affect the long-term economic prosperity of this country and our ability to enhance our civilised society. I want to deal with what he said and—perhaps equally importantly—with the hugely important matters that he left out of his speech. A number of crises are affecting British education and this debate provides a good opportunity to discuss them.
I shall start with what was in both the Secretary of State's speech and the Budget, making reference to skills. The measures announced by the Chancellor on Wednesday were partly welcome, but they are a wholly inadequate response to the skills gap in this country. We welcome the expansion of the employer training pilots, but I am sure that the Secretary of State will acknowledge that those measures only tinker at the edges of what is a massive, and apparently growing, problem. In 2001, the Government's performance and innovation unit said that 7 million adults did not have literacy and numeracy skills at NVQ level 2. On Wednesday, the Chancellor said that that figure had risen to 8 million. In his speech this morning, the
Secretary of State put the figure somewhere between 7 million and 8 million. Given the amount of time that the Government spend getting information and showering the country with paperwork, it seems extraordinary that they do not know to within a million how many completely unskilled people there are.I am glad that the modern apprenticeship programme is growing, although I hope that the Secretary of State will acknowledge that there are differences between the growth rates of the basic and advanced levels, and that there are severe problems at the advanced level. Warwick university's institution for employment research estimates that one in five job vacancies remains unfilled because of a shortage of skilled workers. The Learning and Skills Council has reported that 60 per cent. of all companies say that at least some staff are not fully proficient in basic skills—that figure is up from the 50 per cent. of firms that reported this in 2001.
The Secretary of State asked for constructive interventions on the links between schools and business, and I can only recommend that he does what we have done, which is to look at the way that this is done in those countries that do it better. We have visited Denmark, Germany, Holland and other European countries in which the level of links between business and schools and, in particular, the provision of vocational education, is markedly better than it is here, and also starts markedly earlier. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman wants to go down that route—he has, after all, introduced a Green Paper on provision for 14 to 19-year-olds—but if he does, he will have to address the issues that have been addressed in those other countries.
The right hon. Gentleman will need to consider one particular sacred cow in his own party policy. In those countries that have much broader provision of vocational skills, one thing that happens universally is that, at the age of 12 or so, children are told, "This is your particular skill." There is an element either of compulsory streaming within comprehensive schools or of selection by different types of school. So if the Secretary of State wants to learn from the rest of Europe, I am afraid that he will have to address that issue head on, which I dare say will cause him some problems on his Back Benches.
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