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14 Apr 2003 : Column 604—continued
Benefit Application Forms
6. Mr. Tom Cox (Tooting): When benefit application forms were last revised to make them easier and simpler to complete. [108710]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Malcolm Wicks): The Department for Work and Pensions regularly updates its application packs to make them easier and simpler. As part of the Department's commitment to modernise our service, the introduction of telephone applications has proved particularly successful in simplifying and speeding up the application process. We are building on that success for those applying for the new pension credit.
Mr. Cox : While I note that reply, I am sure that my hon. Friend will be aware of the National Audit Office report that was published toward the end of last year. It clearly said that vast sums of money are not being claimed year on year by retired people who are entitled to benefits. That clearly happens because forms are too complex and long. That point was made repeatedly at a meeting of the Wandsworth pensioners forum in my constituency last month. Whatever changes the Department has made, they are insufficient to encourage people to claim the benefits to which they are entitled. Will he look again at the forms and their complexity and length?
Malcolm Wicks: And we do. I pay tribute to our staff in the Department who, for example, have recently won a plain English award for their work on trying to
simplify forms. We also work closely with citizens advice bureaux. Obviously, we understand that forms are daunting at first sight, which is why the new Pension Service and people's ability to use the telephone to apply for benefits are so important. We shall take on board the points that my hon. Friend makes. We have made a lot of progress on our forms, but there is more to do. He raises a very important point for pensioners.
Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon): The Minister mentions the plain English award that the Department has won. I have in my hand a piece of paper from the Department. It is the standard letter sent to pensioners who apply for invalid care allowance, which begins:
- "We are pleased to tell you that we have looked at your claim and decided you are entitled to Invalid Care Allowance".
- "However, we cannot pay the benefit to you".
- "You are entitled to £43.15 a week from"
- "We cannot pay you from"
Does the Minister understand why pensioners in my constituency think that that is complete rubbish? Will he examine both that specific letter and the way in which pensioners are urged to apply for a benefit that they then cannot get?
Malcolm Wicks: We are still grappling—[Laughter.]—with the old computer systems that we inherited from the laughing Opposition. We have invested in computer systems and will get things right in future. The problem that the hon. Gentleman raises relates to the overlapping rule, but I take the point. He has a piece of paper in his hands and recent events suggest that his party is still associated with appeasement.
Mr. Bill Olner (Nuneaton): I am happy that the Minister has held talks with the National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux on the compilation of forms, but many local bureaux are overwhelmed by people seeking their assistance in filling them out. The Department should try much harder to simplify the forms so that people take up the benefits to which they are entitled.
Malcolm Wicks: Again, I understand the point, but let us consider what has happened in practice. The minimum income guarantee form has been reduced from 40 to only 10 pages, and people will be able to apply for pension credit by telephone when they can talk to another human being who will explain it to them. Obviously, the forms are often complex and we need to simplify them, but we are making great progress.
Mr. Tim Boswell (Daventry): In general, the simpler the form, the better the take-up. The Department's figures show that the number of people claiming incapacity benefit and disability living allowance on the grounds of mental illness increased by a quarter and by three quarters respectively between 1997 and last year. Why should that be? Is it simply that the application
forms for those benefits have been simplified—welcome though that is—and that take-up has increased as a result, or does the Minister think that there are more significant and potentially alarming factors to do with the state of mental health in Britain today? What practical policies do the Government have to assist those with mental health problems both to stay in work and to find work rather than becoming trapped in dependency on benefits?
Malcolm Wicks: Again, that is an important question. It is interesting that more people across the western world have claimed incapacity benefits not in the last six years alone, but since about 1979. It is also the case that in recent years the proportion claiming that benefit because of mental illness factors or stress has increased, and we need to understand that. We are emphasising the importance of joining up different agencies around the theme of rehabilitation, and a number of pilot studies on that will start soon. It is unacceptable to the individuals concerned—many of whom would like to work—that so many are on incapacity benefit. It is a big issue. The number of those on such benefits has increased roughly threefold since 1979. We all need to think hard about that and to take action, which is what we are doing.
New Deal (Leicester)
7. Keith Vaz (Leicester, East): If he will make a statement about progress with the new deal in Leicester. [108711]
The Minister for Work (Mr. Nicholas Brown): The new deals are performing well in Leicester. Up to the end of last year, more than 4,000 people in the city had moved into work through new deals, including 1,200 in my hon. Friend's constituency.
Keith Vaz: Is my right hon. Friend aware of the success of a company called Business2Business, which provides ethnic minority projects under the new deal and has taken on 800 clients since it began? Does he agree that the best way to deliver the new deal to the ethnic minority communities is to ensure that organisations within the communities are used so that they can fully engage with their potential clients? Will he come to Leicester to see our success?
Mr. Brown: My hon. Friend makes an important point in a powerful way. I am aware of the work carried out by the minority ethnic outreach providers. It is a relatively new initiative and is having an impact. The House might be interested to hear some examples of the work undertaken by the providers. They include holding surgeries in mosques to attract a wider range of people from minority ethnic communities and working in partnership with good employers, such as Sainsbury's, by having a stall within the shopping area to incorporate discussion of outreach services, but more needs to be done. I am happy to take up my hon. Friend's invitation to visit Leicester to see at first hand what is being done there and to discuss with the minority communities what more they believe we could and should do.
Retirement
8. Dr. Nick Palmer (Broxtowe): If he will take steps to encourage optional later retirement. [108712]
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr. Andrew Smith): Yes, our Green Paper sets out proposals to increase options for older people to stay in work longer, which include drawing a pension and working part-time, providing better increments for those who defer taking the state pension, legislating against age discrimination and building on the age positive campaign to raise awareness of the business benefits of older people staying in the work force.
Dr. Palmer : We all realise that we need to encourage people to stay on after age 65 if they are able and willing to do so. For many people, however, the main issue is that they no longer want to work 100 per cent. of the time, and they would like to have a gradual, phased retirement. Does the Secretary of State agree that we need to introduce measures to encourage and facilitate that?
Mr. Smith: I very much agree, with one slight qualification. It is not for the Government to say that people ought to work longer. The key thing is that they have a choice that enables them to bring into correspondence their expectations of income in retirement and their other interests. Of course, whether they want to continue working also depends on how fit they feel. As part of that greater choice, people should be able to work part-time and draw down a pension. We make proposals for that in our Green Paper, in relation to both the tax treatment and the scheme design.
Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire): As the Secretary of State said, raising the age at which people cease to work was one of the proposals in the recent Green Paper. Has he seen the Institute of Directors response to that, which was released today? It describes the Government as
- "barely scratching the surface of the pension problem."
- "There is no doubt about it, there is a pensions crisis in this country . . . people are not saving enough . . . the rates of return on pension saving have suffered, partly reflecting . . . the current Government's removal of the tax credit on dividend payments . . . We doubt if [the Government] recognise that there is indeed a pensions crisis."
Mr. Smith: We could take more seriously the crocodile tears of the hon. Gentleman and those of his right hon. and hon. Friends who mouth this stuff if they came to the House with a commitment to reinstate the provision that they complain is being taken away. However, the hon. Member for Havant (Mr. Willetts) is on record as saying that the Conservatives are not making such a commitment.
The hon. Member for North-East Hertfordshire (Mr. Heald) referred to the Institute of Directors representations. We shall carefully consider those and the other 800 or more responses to the Green Paper. I am sure that the way to approach this challenge is through the mix of proposals that we have set out, combining informed choice, flexibility in retirement, radical simplification of the pensions landscape and opportunities such as those that I have just described, which will allow people to choose to draw down a pension and work part-time. We also want to provide protection for scheme members who feel vulnerable at the moment because of the schemes that have closed. All that and more will be in our response to the Green Paper.
Mr. George Foulkes (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley): I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Dr. Palmer) and the Secretary of State. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it would be helpful to have legislation on age discrimination? Has he considered the experience of B&Q, which has found that by employing older people it gets employees with greater experience and wisdom? Does not that also apply to the Government and the House of Commons?
Mr. Smith: The longer that my right hon. Friend can go on asking questions like that, the better. Like him, I commend firms such as B&Q and Asda, which have led the way not only in making the business case for employing older people but in showing that that has commercial and customer benefits. That extension of choice, together with a simpler occupational pensions system and greater security within that system, is the sensible way forward.
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